EP elections 2014

[Zanas]

It's just a fact that for many years far-left rhetorics have too often (not always) relied on class struggle, proletariate etc.

Are you inferring that there is no class struggle ongoing today ? And that there is no proletariate in our society ? Of course, the proletariate doesn't think of itself as such, and only the dominant class is conscious that there is indeed a class struggle, and that they are winning it. But still, these words may be dated, but the concepts are still very much current.

[palandio]

It's just a fact that for many years far-left rhetorics have too often (not always) relied on class struggle, proletariate etc.

Are you inferring that there is no class struggle ongoing today ? And that there is no proletariate in our society ? Of course, the proletariate doesn't think of itself as such, and only the dominant class is conscious that there is indeed a class struggle, and that they are winning it. But still, these words may be dated, but the concepts are still very much current.

A majority of the German adult population does not own any property that would merit that name. And we Germans are rich by comparison. Call that proletariat if you want.
1% owns one third and here we are speaking of all property. The numbers get even higher if we only count ownership of enterprises etc. Some enterpreneur-financed lobby groups try to influence politics and to a large degree they succeed. Call that class struggle if you want, George Soros does.
I hope you get what I mean.

[Zanas]

I think we actually agree, palandio. It's our comrade Tito I do not agree with completely.

[Zanas]

Talking from a European perspective, can we really call international CEOs or market speculators ''bourgeoisie'' even though they are still wage earners? Can we really call the upper middle class people reliant on income, no longer living in urban industrial areas ''proleteriat'' even though they own land, capital, etc albeit in very small proportion compared to the infamous 1%.

No, we shouldn't call them that, my point exactly. Though there is still a class struggle between a dominant class and an exploited one, and if anything the dominant class is even more dominant than the bourgeoisie ever was, and the exploited are even less self-conscious than the proletariat ever was. Hence all of our problems.

[Zanas]

If you love Tsipras so much, maybe you should move to Greece ? Ouzo is the sh**t.

More seriously, Tsipras is GUE's candidate EU-wide, and there are now more and more people in the "radical left" that live and think in the present. Don't make us a bunch of archaic marxist-leninist. The parties might still have progress to do, but you really can find individuals that are more or less credible and not nutjobs.

[MaxQue]

It's just a fact that for many years far-left rhetorics have too often (not always) relied on class struggle, proletariate etc.

Are you inferring that there is no class struggle ongoing today ? And that there is no proletariate in our society ? Of course, the proletariate doesn't think of itself as such, and only the dominant class is conscious that there is indeed a class struggle, and that they are winning it. But still, these words may be dated, but the concepts are still very much current.

Well, from what I hear from various far-left people, the discourse is often very outdated and not very useful might be true, but I don't see a middle person being convinced by it.

Politics isn't only about ideas, it's also about being to convince people.

[Хahar 🤔]

On an unrelated note, why is PASOK calling itself L'Ulivo or whatever now?

[MaxQue]

On an unrelated note, why is PASOK calling itself L'Ulivo or whatever now?

Apparently, it's an alliance with small social-democrat parties for elections (probably inspired by Italians).

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

On an unrelated note, why is PASOK calling itself L'Ulivo or whatever now?

Because PASOK's name is lower than mud and they're desperate enough to disguise themselves to avoid complete obliteration come May?

*spoilers* it won't work

[Enno von Loewenstern]

I am sorry to interrupt your far left discussion for the latest german survey. Do not feel disturbed. ;-)

Infratest dimap    for ARD       

CDU/CSU 40 %    
SPD 28 %
Greens 9 %    
Left 7 %    
AfD 6 %
FDP 3 %        
Others 7 %

I would estimate the "others" : 2-2,5% Pirates, 1-1,5% Free Voters, 1% NPD, 0,5-1% Animal Protection, ÖDP, Die Partei, less than 0,5 pro NRW, REP etc.

[Tender Branson]

New poll for "Heute" by Unique Research (sample = 800):



FPÖ drops to below 20% for the first time, nice ... hopefully it lasts.



http://www.heute.at/news/politik/art23660,1000423

[Tender Branson]

It's also the first time the liberal NEOS has 14% support in an EP poll.

With their continuing trend upward and the FPÖ struggling to attract protest voters because of Mölzer's racist/nazi-rants, I think NEOS could actually achieve a HP Martin-like result of 18% in this election.

[Zanas]

New poll for "Heute" by Unique Research (sample = 800):



FPÖ drops to below 20% for the first time, nice ... hopefully it lasts.



http://www.heute.at/news/politik/art23660,1000423

I never thought I would be so happy seeing ÖVP so high...

[Tender Branson]

The Sweden Democrats might leave the planned Far-Right group (called EAF) because the recent "n-conglomerate/Third Reich/anti-David Alaba"-rants from FPÖ's Mölzer are "not tolerable" for them:

http://derstandard.at/1395363930520/Moelzers-Aussagen-fuer-Schwedendemokraten-nicht-tolerierbar



Excellent. It's better that this Far-Right group is never established anyway.

[Tender Branson]

[Cranberry]

New poll for "Heute" by Unique Research (sample = 800):



FPÖ drops to below 20% for the first time, nice ... hopefully it lasts.



http://www.heute.at/news/politik/art23660,1000423

I never thought I would be so happy seeing ÖVP so high...

Me neither

I feel really ashamed as Austrian, that we actually voted such a man into the European Parliament! Why are Austrians so dumb?

Hopefully the FPÖ drop stays; but it's still over a month, so I don't have much faith...

[Enno von Loewenstern]

Anderas Mölzer is such an racist idiot. I am against political correctness and i am against the inflationary accusations of racism, but Mölzer needs to retire. It is not surprising that the AfD not want to sit with him in a group. And now even the Swedendemocrats. They are absolutely right!

[Tayya]

The Sweden Democrats might leave the planned Far-Right group (called EAF) because the recent "n-conglomerate/Third Reich/anti-David Alaba"-rants from FPÖ's Mölzer are "not tolerable" for them:

http://derstandard.at/1395363930520/Moelzers-Aussagen-fuer-Schwedendemokraten-nicht-tolerierbar



Excellent. It's better that this Far-Right group is never established anyway.

I don't think you understand how baffling it is to see the Sweden Democrats actually draw the line someone. The statement is from their most extreme MP, even, who regularly talks about "people exchanges" and other unpleasantries.

[Tender Branson]

The Sweden Democrats might leave the planned Far-Right group (called EAF) because the recent "n-conglomerate/Third Reich/anti-David Alaba"-rants from FPÖ's Mölzer are "not tolerable" for them:

http://derstandard.at/1395363930520/Moelzers-Aussagen-fuer-Schwedendemokraten-nicht-tolerierbar



Excellent. It's better that this Far-Right group is never established anyway.

I don't think you understand how baffling it is to see the Sweden Democrats actually draw the line someone. The statement is from their most extreme MP, even, who regularly talks about "people exchanges" and other unpleasantries.

Or: Maybe it was just an alibi-statement from the Sweden Democrats ...

They say they don't agree with the comments because they don't want to piss off their moderate voters.

But what they think in reality is probably not much different than the views Mölzer has ...

[Diouf]

NCD and UDC ally for the European elections, and apparently they are in negotiations with Mario Mauro's new Popolari per l'Italia as well. Popolari per l'Italia is a split off from Mario Montis Scelta Civica, and sits in a common group with the UDC in the parliament. They have a deputy minister and three undersecretaries in the Renzi Cabinet.
According to the newest poll from Ipsos for Corriere delle Sera, they are able to cross the threshold and get 5 seats. However, in this poll neither the Tsipras alliance nor the ALDE alliance (Scelta Civica - Europa) are above the threshold. But neither are that far from doing it.



http://www.repubblica.it/politica/2014/04/03/news/elezioni_europee_ncd_di_alfano_si_allea_con_udc_d_alia_insieme_verso_ppe_italiano-82618482/

[Keystone Phil]

So that answers that about NCD (and FDI). I guess the center-left alliance will definitely be the top vote getter now.

[Tender Branson]

Apparently heavy infighting within the FPÖ right now about the Nazi/Racism/Anti-David Alaba comments by Andreas Mölzer ...

FPÖ-leader Strache said he "doesn't like at all" the comments by Mölzer against the popular black footballer David Alaba, because Strache "is a big fan of him" and the "FPÖ is a patriotic party".

Other party members don't like all his recent comments in general, fearing that the party could lose considerable support in the next weeks (similar to what happened with Barbara Rosenkranz in the 2010 Presidential Election).

But it's not so easy to get rid of Mölzer: Mölzer is a long-time and die-hard FPÖ-politician who often defended Strache against others, and appeals to the very far-right segment of the party.

He's also the editor of the far-right newspaper "Zur Zeit", which also published the anti-Alaba article and appeals to the far-right fraternities. If Mölzer is axed, the newspaper could report badly about Strache ...

Also, his son - Wendelin Mölzer - is a current MP in the Austrian Parliament, who - if his father is axed - could become an uncomfortable backbencher for Strache and the party.

Also, campaign posters with Mölzer have already been printed - worth a few millions.

But: If the FPÖ really has the balls to get rid of Mölzer, they have until April 11 at 5pm, which is the deadline to submit the party lists for the EP elections to the Interior Ministry.

http://derstandard.at/1395364387850/Strache-gegen-beleidigende-Formulierungen-in-Moelzers-Heft

[Tender Branson]

New OGM poll for the "Kurier" newspaper (sample = 776):



"Should the FPÖ-politician Andreas Mölzer step down because of his comments likening the EU to the Third Reich ?"

67% Yes
17% No
16% Undecided

(among FPÖ voters only)

24% Yes
53% No
23% Undecided

http://kurier.at/politik/eu/fpoe-moelzer-wird-zu-straches-hypothek/59.192.523

47% of FPÖ voters either wanting his resignation or being "no comment" should be alarming for Strache ...

[Tender Branson]

Signature collection update:

* Europa Anders ("A different Europe" - Communists, Pirates, Wandel): Completed (2.600/2.600)

* BZÖ: 2.457/2.600

* EU-STOP: 1.750/2.600

* SGA/Monarchists: 1.600/2.600

http://derstandard.at/1395364379809/Drei-Parteien-sammeln-noch-Unterstuetzungserklaerungen

BZÖ will easily get the signatures needed, but the other 2 only have 5 days left to collect them.

Doesn't look good for them ...

[FredLindq]

NCD and UDC ally for the European elections, and apparently they are in negotiations with Mario Mauro's new Popolari per l'Italia as well. Popolari per l'Italia is a split off from Mario Montis Scelta Civica, and sits in a common group with the UDC in the parliament. They have a deputy minister and three undersecretaries in the Renzi Cabinet.
According to the newest poll from Ipsos for Corriere delle Sera, they are able to cross the threshold and get 5 seats. However, in this poll neither the Tsipras alliance nor the ALDE alliance (Scelta Civica - Europa) are above the threshold. But neither are that far from doing it.



http://www.repubblica.it/politica/2014/04/03/news/elezioni_europee_ncd_di_alfano_si_allea_con_udc_d_alia_insieme_verso_ppe_italiano-82618482/

So NCD, and UCD etc will be in an alliances, FI will go with La Destra. What are the chances off FDI and the liberal alliance getting 4% each?! FDI seems to be polling  almost 4% and the liberals better than in national polls.