Regarding Rick Santorum

[Keystone Phil]

Some of you will never, ever learn.

Remember that even during the Wall Street Journal debate or whatever, this was a guy who directed the conversation back to social issues, something the other candidates were far less comfortable with.

That is blatantly false. In fact, Santorum spent most of his time talking about his economic/fiscal platform (plans on corporate taxes, bringing manufacturing back to the U.S., a Balanced Budget Amendment, his work on Welfare Reform, etc.) but that doesn't fit the picture that certain people want to paint so the talking heads will continue to say he's all about social issues. We won't let the truth get in the way of things!

Don't get me wrong: Santorum clearly likes to talk about social issues and I, for one, don't think that's a bad thing. See, we are supposed to elect leaders in this country and leaders, whether on the right or the left, don't say things like, "I'm only talking about [insert broad set of issues] during this campaign." Leaders are confronted with far more than just economic issues when they're in office. So while Santorum will show that he has...you know...a spine and talks about other things, it doesn't mean he dwells on social issues nearly as much as his detractors would have you believe.

[Keystone Phil]

but he also brought up the importance of traditional values in shaping society. It was actually the Bloomberg debate.

Good for him. He was running for President, not CFO. Not to mention, Rick arguably talks about foreign/military policy more than any other type of issue these days. I especially like that since the proponents of an ostrich foreign policy seem to be growing louder these days.

You go on to say that that's an important thing. I applaud that.

[Keystone Phil]

What was Santorum's line about kids going to college? Something unspeakable, right?

Something totally taken out of context. Per usual.

[Keystone Phil]

What was Santorum's line about kids going to college? Something unspeakable, right?

Something totally taken out of context. Per usual.

He said Obama was "a snob" for wanting everyone to go to college (even though Obama never said he wanted everyone to go to college).

And IIRC, Santorum has a BA, an MBA, and a JD, so.....

That right there is how his comments were taken ridiculously out of context. "Rick went to college! How could he say going to college is snobby?" Except he didn't say going to college is snobby. Either you people cannot follow simple arguments or you're totally disingenuous. I really can't tell these days.

[Keystone Phil]

Excuse us for thinking that Santorum  isn't a credible  "anti-elitist,working-class hero" (which I know that he wants to be perceived as) when he himself has been a huge beneficiary of higher education (among other things).

Which has nothing to do with the subject.

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Uh...this isn't about agreeing with Santorum or not on this subject. What the hell am I supposed to elaborate on here? He thinks it's snobby to think that someone has to go to be successful. I agree. What needs to be clarified? The discussion here is over the idea that Santorum said it's snobby to go to college. He didn't say that. At all. But that's been the misconception from the very second he uttered the comment and it comes from people that simply don't like "my candidate." God, I wonder why...

I think quite a few people here need to get something through their very thick skulls: this isn't about "attacking" people who don't like "my candidate." I've been involved in politics for quite some time even though I'm young. I've liked Rick Santorum from the very start. If you don't think that I've accepted that people don't like the guy then that's your problem. People here need to get the hell over themselves because it takes a massive ego to think that I care to attack you for not liking "my candidate." I couldn't possibly care less. I really don't care to win over a group of guys on a stupid Internet political forum. If I spent my time just attacking people for not liking Santorum, I'd literally have no other posts on any other topic. I have a very long list of better things to do than spend my time dwelling on Santorum haters.

Pointing out when you're wrong about what "my candidate" has said doesn't mean I'm "attacking" you for not liking him. That's nothing more than whining on your part because you dislike that I've called out your misunderstanding (at best) or disingenuous attack (most likely). I'm just one of a very, very small number of Santorum fans here, I'm the most vocal and I've been here the longest so I'm usually the one responding to every ridiculous thing said about him. That might make it seem like I just attack whoever dislikes him but that's not the case

[Keystone Phil]

Phil, is the fact that Obama never said that, and Santorum was misrepresenting him, relevant?

Or is it ok because you can sort of make his statement defensible if you take it out of that context?

How about we do this: admit that it's wrong to make up/totally misrepresent comments by each individual?

It isn't suddenly justified to look at what Santorum said and a) lie about his remarks (Made up quote: "Going to college is snobby") and b) try to make him out to be a hypocrite by pointing out his advanced degrees. Arguably, his detractors have taken it a step further. You know, the usual.

Oh, and for the record, Rick Santorum (Supposed Satan - PA/VA) backtracked on his comments:

UPDATE: Santorum backtracked on this claim during the March 4, 2012, edition of Fox News Sunday after being pressed by host Chris Wallace, the Boston Globe reported. "I've read some columns where at least it was characterized that the president said, we should go to four-year colleges," Santorum said, adding, "If it was in error, then I agree with the president that we should have options for people to go to variety of different training options for them."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/feb/27/rick-santorum/rick-santorum-calls-barack-obama-snob-wanting-ever/


It's probably time for the usual suspects here to do the same on their misrepresentation of Santorum's remarks. Don't worry: I'm not holding my breath.

[Keystone Phil]

Phil, is the fact that Obama never said that, and Santorum was misrepresenting him, relevant?

Or is it ok because you can sort of make his statement defensible if you take it out of that context?

How about we do this: admit that it's wrong to make up/totally misrepresent comments by each individual?

It isn't suddenly justified to look at what Santorum said and a) lie about his remarks (Made up quote: "Going to college is snobby") and b) try to make him out to be a hypocrite by pointing out his advanced degrees. Arguably, his detractors have taken it a step further. You know, the usual.

Oh, and for the record, Rick Santorum (Supposed Satan - PA/VA) backtracked on his comments:

UPDATE: Santorum backtracked on this claim during the March 4, 2012, edition of Fox News Sunday after being pressed by host Chris Wallace, the Boston Globe reported. "I've read some columns where at least it was characterized that the president said, we should go to four-year colleges," Santorum said, adding, "If it was in error, then I agree with the president that we should have options for people to go to variety of different training options for them."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/feb/27/rick-santorum/rick-santorum-calls-barack-obama-snob-wanting-ever/


It's probably time for the usual suspects here to do the same on their misrepresentation of Santorum's remarks. Don't worry: I'm not holding my breath.

Okay, let's go through this:

Santorum says..."President Obama wants everyone to go to college. What a snob."

Santorum means...President Obama is a snob for wanting everyone to go to college. Wanting everyone to go to college makes one a snob.

I would argue that you could call someone a snob for wanting every single person in society to have a four-year degree or higher. But you seem to be overlooking the fact that OBAMA NEVER SAID THAT.

What if a Democratic politician said, "[GOP Candidate X] says you're not really an American if you're not Christian. What a hateful bigot!"

Except the GOP candidate didn't actually say that. He made some blithe reference to "America's Judeo-Christian values."

Now, it's not unreasonable to call someone a bigot who thinks Christianity is a litmus test for being a good citizen. However, it is highly unreasonable and over the line to make that statement based on something that NO ONE EVER SAID.

So what if Santorum backtracked? Making a BS statement on the campaign trail and then later "clarifying" in a statement most people are never going to bother looking up on PolitiFact is like when a lawyer makes an inadmissible statement in court, the other lawyer objects and the judge tells the jury to disregard the remark. They can't disregard it. They already heard it.

Santorum makes an outlandish statement and then later on makes a non-apology for telling a blatant lie. That puts him slightly above Michele "Vaccines Cause Mental Retardation" Bachmann on the veracity scale, which is an embarrassing place to be.

Why can't you just admit it was a cheap shot?

Now the whining has gotten even more pathetic. It's not good enough that Santorum backtracked and said he wouldn't have said it if he had it to do over. No, no, no. It's just like your courtroom analogy. Definitely just as serious!




Still waiting on how all of this justifies totally making up something Santorum said and calling him a hypocrite. Again, not holding my breath. Keep avoiding that.

[Keystone Phil]

When did I make up something Santorum said and call him a hypocrite? Find the place in this thread where I made up something Santorum said and called him a hypocrite. I did not do either one of those things and no one else here did either.

Hey, whoa...if you're willing to say from the jump that it's wrong, there's nothing more to see here. So if you don't believe Santorum said going to college is snobby, aren't calling him a hypocrite and think the people that have said both of those things are wrong, you'll say so. Right? You do that and I'll concede that you weren't making those points in the first place (while other clowns around here still won't own up to it). 

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Yeah, "Bumf**k, Central Pennsylvania." Glad you aren't feeding right into what Rick was getting at...

[Keystone Phil]

Haha. Louisiana flips. Haha. Tennessee flips. Arkansas, too. Kentucky. West Virginia. South Carolina and Mississippi are too close to call! Man, you're precious.

[Keystone Phil]

Haha. Louisiana flips. Haha. Tennessee flips. Arkansas, too. Kentucky. West Virginia. South Carolina and Mississippi are too close to call! Man, you're precious.

Seems realistic to me when Obama isn't the candidate and Santorum has a full campaign of speeches and statements to give people a reason to stay home or hold their noses and vote for the competent candidate.

Ok.

[Keystone Phil]

As late as 1996 they had gone twice for Bill Clinton. Hillary Clinton has been shown leading such luminaries as Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio in two of those states

Correct. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has been leading them. Wait until reality kicks in in about a year or two.

No point in arguing the rest. I've probably been over it literally five hundred times around here.

[Keystone Phil]

No point in arguing the rest. I've probably been over it literally five hundred times around here.

It's honestly hard to understand your faith in his electability against so much disagreement, and to keep writing it off as people being personal or emotional or whatnot.

Yes because that's all I've ever done. I've never admitted that Santorum isn't the most electable candidate. I've never conceded that he'd have problems. I've always chalked it up to people being personal or emotional. Yep.

You done with your trolling in this thread, brittain? Almost? Half way?

[Keystone Phil]

As late as 1996 they had gone twice for Bill Clinton. Hillary Clinton has been shown leading such luminaries as Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio in two of those states

Correct. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has been leading them. Wait until reality kicks in in about a year or two.

No point in arguing the rest. I've probably been over it literally five hundred times around here.

And dead wrong literally 498 times.

Yes because you said so!