MA: Common Courtesy While Driving Act (Vetoed)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

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Sponsor: ZuWo

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'll be supporting this.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Most statutes don't define "excessive use of horn"; it's up to the officer's discretion, and that's reviewable by a court.  I think what we have now is fine and in line with most statutes in the U.S.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I don't see the need for a warning.  Can supporters of the warning provide an example of any jurisdiction who gives a mandatory warning before giving a fine?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I don't see the need for a warning.  Can supporters of the warning provide an example of any jurisdiction who gives a mandatory warning before giving a fine?

I support establishing a warning due to the high level of individual officer's discretion that is created through this legislation.

I understand that.  But that's not what I asked.  Can you give an example of any jurisdiction that requires a warning before a fine is given?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I don't see the need for a warning.  Can supporters of the warning provide an example of any jurisdiction who gives a mandatory warning before giving a fine?

I support establishing a warning due to the high level of individual officer's discretion that is created through this legislation.

I understand that.  But that's not what I asked.  Can you give an example of any jurisdiction that requires a warning before a fine is given?

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone? Anyone?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

You posted 2 responses to the other debate while not posting any here... I was worried you were going to ignore my question.

I see no harm in giving police discretion.  We do that all the time.  Improper start from a red light; running a yellow light; tailgating; driving too fast in adverse road conditions.

All of those are discretion left up to the officer.  And all of those are reviewable by a judge.  I don't hear cries of mass police abuse of discretion.  I think a warning is absolutely unnecessary.

Furthermore, I fail to see why flashing of high beams should be used over excessive use.  Having high beams on when it is not necessary is a traffic hazard.  If you're driving with your high beams left on, and there are cars around, you should be ticketed.  It's a hazard, plain and simple.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I propose the following amendment:

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As I've said, I can't find any other jurisdiction who gives out one warning before issuing a ticket.  $100 is not a huge fine.  I think this is entirely reasonable.  I think it's absurd to say that you could be blasting your horn for no reason and a cop has no authority to issue a ticket.  A cop is always able to give only a warning if he wants.  Mandating the warning just doesn't make sense here.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

And since we just had a debate on this, I'm going to forgo the usual 24-hour debate on amendments.  We haven't had debate recently, and the last debate was regarding the subject of this amendment.  So, voting on my amendment is now open.  Members will vote AYE, NAY or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 24-hour vote.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

AYE

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The text of this leaves a lot open to interpretation, especially with the high beams clause. How can we determine when it is necessary to have them on? I think a warning is fair with the way this bill is written - often if you've had a clean record and have never been stopped, officers often issue verbal and written warnings - I don't see why it couldn't be included for these items as well.

If a cop can see that your a driver's high beams are on, they shouldn't be on... because it's a hazard to other drivers.

Yes, if you have a clean record, officers often issue warnings; however, it's AT THEIR DISCRETION.  This bill completely removes discretion and tells the officer that they have to issue a warning.  Someone could be completely obnoxious, honking their horn, flashing their high beams and making faces at some poor old woman, and all the cop can do is give a warning?  No jurisdiction has such a relaxed law.

We already trust police officers with discretion in instances of driving too fast for conditions.  Should we mandate warnings there too?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm fine with Lumine's language, but keep in mind that the effect of Lumine's language and my language is exactly the same.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now closed.  The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 2.  The AYEs have it, and the amendment has passed.  The bill now reads as follows:

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[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Give me an example of a time that "turning on high beams when it is not necessary to do so" could lead to a ticket that "excessive flashing of high beams when it is not necessary to do so" would not be able to.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Well then I cannot sponsor this amendment.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Seeing no further debate, the bill, in the following form, is brought to a final vote.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48-hour vote.

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[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

AYE

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now closed.  The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 2.  The AYEs have it, and the bill has passed.  The bill is now passed onto the Governor for his signature or veto.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I motion to override the veto.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48-hour vote.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now closed.  The AYEs are 2, and the NAYs are 3.  The AYEs not having reached a 2/3 majority, the vote to override the Governor's veto has failed.