1964 United States Presidential Election

[OAM]

And ironically Goldwater was pretty much a social libertarian too...  I think people of all stripes have long ago stopped caring about these "small details" though.

[tmthforu94]

Smith in 64!

[Donerail]

This proves unequivocally that "libertarians" are willing to accept the subjucation of nonwhites just to suit their isolationist principles. Of course, since 1964 predates the Gulf of Tonkin incident, there's no way a Dixiecrat president wouldn't intervene in Vietnam anyway. So even if you're anti-Vietnam (which I would be in hindsight), there is no reason to vote unpledged unless you hate black people.

Yes Snowstalker, exactly. Considering how many people died/will die if the present course continues, yes, I'd far rather have continued segregation on my conscience than the deaths of thousands, if not millions, of innocent civilians. And seeing as the VP voted against the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and the Presidential candidate did not believe the GoTR would "be interpreted as a sweeping Congressional endorsement for the conduct of a large-scale war in Asia."

[Old Man Svensson]

The fact that people are actually getting upset over a a completely fictional alternate history legitimately damages my faith in humanity.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Pro-war "leftists" voting for mass murder is disgusting.

The causal link for why LBJ supported and expanded the Vietnam war is non-existant in this timeline. If Kennedy had not gone in, LBJ would have been a purely domestic president.

So the choices are:
Pro-war, pro-nuking Republicans
Pro-segregationist Democrats

or

Pro-Medicare/Medicaid/Civil Rights.

Tough choice really...

I would buy this argument in 1960, but the Vietnam war has already begun to a similar extent that it did IRL in this TL, so it's impossible for LBJ to be a "purely domestic President". He has to take some stance on Vietnam, either for withdrawal or continuing the war, and it's quite obvious which of those two he is going to choose.

...Didn't you vote unpledged in '60 because you didn't buy this argument?

[Supersonic]

The fact that people are actually getting upset over a a completely fictional alternate history legitimately damages my faith in humanity.

Ha. Quite.

[Donerail]

The fact that people are actually getting upset over a a completely fictional alternate history legitimately damages my faith in humanity.

13% of people between 18 and 29 believe in lizard people.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The fact that people are actually getting upset over a a completely fictional alternate history legitimately damages my faith in humanity.

Welcome to Atlas Forum, we hope you enjoy your stay

[Kitteh]

Pro-war "leftists" voting for mass murder is disgusting.

The causal link for why LBJ supported and expanded the Vietnam war is non-existant in this timeline. If Kennedy had not gone in, LBJ would have been a purely domestic president.

So the choices are:
Pro-war, pro-nuking Republicans
Pro-segregationist Democrats

or

Pro-Medicare/Medicaid/Civil Rights.

Tough choice really...

I would buy this argument in 1960, but the Vietnam war has already begun to a similar extent that it did IRL in this TL, so it's impossible for LBJ to be a "purely domestic President". He has to take some stance on Vietnam, either for withdrawal or continuing the war, and it's quite obvious which of those two he is going to choose.

...Didn't you vote unpledged in '60 because you didn't buy this argument?

No, I voted unpledged in '60 for the lols (come on, Happy/Happy would have been awesome )

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I'd like to note a few things.

First off, whoever said I accidentally let you see the results due to my being in a hurry, correct. You get a gold star.

Secondly, in all likelihood, a Smith presidency would've been about, if not at times moreso, liberal/progressive than a Johnson presidency, and in all likelihood, I believe Johnson would've kept the status quo on Vietnam in this scenario.

[OAM]

I'd like to note a few things.

First off, whoever said I accidentally let you see the results due to my being in a hurry, correct. You get a gold star.

Secondly, in all likelihood, a Smith presidency would've been about, if not at times moreso, liberal/progressive than a Johnson presidency, and in all likelihood, I believe Johnson would've kept the status quo on Vietnam in this scenario.

That'd be me.  What can I turn these gold stars in for?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I'd like to note a few things.

First off, whoever said I accidentally let you see the results due to my being in a hurry, correct. You get a gold star.

Secondly, in all likelihood, a Smith presidency would've been about, if not at times moreso, liberal/progressive than a Johnson presidency, and in all likelihood, I believe Johnson would've kept the status quo on Vietnam in this scenario.

That'd be me.  What can I turn these gold stars in for?

Bonus points of course!

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

For the first time, LBJ is leading!

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

The Blowjob.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Come on guys, you don't want the first Democratic President since FDR to be a more conservative than IRL version of Lyndon Johnson do you?  

Question for Cathdawg, God of Atlamerica: Can unpledged electors second-preference a candidate to indicate who we'd support in the House and Senate if the winner is denied a majority in the electoral college?

If so:

[1] Fulbright/Morse (Anti-Vietnam War Unpledged Electors)
[2] MCS/Wayne Morse
[3] MCS/RL HHH JFK
[4] MCS/Barry Goldwater
[5] LBJ/JFK

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Hmm... I'll give the vague answer that it'll depend on the geographic location of said electors.

Also, another note and this goes out to the people getting all hot over LBJ's candidacy: a number, if not nearly all, of his real life accomplishments have already been seen to.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Can you stop having unpledged as an option?

[Kitteh]

Can you stop having unpledged as an option?

I assume he will win such stops being an option IRL.

[TNF]

I'm going unpledged. LBJ was horrendous since he spent money on social programs while getting us involved in another war to fund which brought inflation up and put us in a terrible recession. Plus, I doubt that if he was alive to this day, even though he was a Democrat, he seemed old-fashioned and came from Texas he would denounce marriage equality as well. Next time, in '68, the Democrats need a better candidate than Mr. Look At My Scar.

In that case, you should vote against every candidate for President until Barack Obama in 2012, the only one who has ever been on record favoring marriage equality. Judging LBJ by the standards of 2012 is insane.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Can you stop having unpledged as an option?

I assume he will win such stops being an option IRL.

Mhm. George Wallace will take their place in 1968, John Schmitz in '72, and it'll end there unless there's a popular mandate for having Lester Maddox in '76 and so on.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I'm going unpledged. LBJ was horrendous since he spent money on social programs

So...you don't support spending money on social programs?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Also, do you ladies and gentlemen think an incumbent LBJ could/would/should survive a primary challenge from George McGovern or Hubert Humphrey or Robert F. Kennedy in 1968?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Also, who passed Medicare/Medicaid and the CRA? Debs? Sinclair? Smith?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Smith.

Chase and Barry "Let's nuke Vietnam" Goldwater will be much, much possibly slightly worse than LBJ.

Though why you would vote for either when there's a far better option is beyond me.

Anyways, Morse wasn't a segregationist that I know of, and Fulbright was many things besides that. You could do far worse.

Wayne Morse wasn't a segregationist, but he did vote against the 1957 Civil Rights Act.  So did JFK.

Massachusetts
AYE      D     Kennedy, John    MA

"Morse joined the Democratic Party in 1955, but two years later he voted against Senate Majority Leader Lyndon B. Johnson’s watered-down Civil Rights Bill, calling it an “unconscionable compromise.”"

So yeah, Morse voted against the 1957 one because it didn't go far enough, and Kennedy voted for it.

Sources?   Everything I've read says that Morse voted against it in exchange for a dam, and JFK voted No.

[Donerail]

Smith.

Chase and Barry "Let's nuke Vietnam" Goldwater will be much, much possibly slightly worse than LBJ.

Though why you would vote for either when there's a far better option is beyond me.

Anyways, Morse wasn't a segregationist that I know of, and Fulbright was many things besides that. You could do far worse.

Wayne Morse wasn't a segregationist, but he did vote against the 1957 Civil Rights Act.  So did JFK.

Massachusetts
AYE      D     Kennedy, John    MA

"Morse joined the Democratic Party in 1955, but two years later he voted against Senate Majority Leader Lyndon B. Johnson’s watered-down Civil Rights Bill, calling it an “unconscionable compromise.”"

So yeah, Morse voted against the 1957 one because it didn't go far enough, and Kennedy voted for it.

Sources?   Everything I've read says that Morse voted against it in exchange for a dam, and JFK voted No.

JFK voted aye, source for Morse is the University of Oregon Wayne Morse Center for Law and Politics.