A question to Jesus Christ

[Shira]

Whenever I have the chance I try not miss a speech of J.Falwell  or an interview with him. In one of these interviews, few months ago he expressed his view in strong favor of the death penalty. The Pope, on the other hand, opposes the death penalty. To resolve these differences, we simply have to ask Jesus Christ: “Are you in favor or against the death penalty?” I say  “..we simply have to ask…”, but it is far from being simple. We, the normal people can not speak to Jesus, since he was executed almost 2000 years ago. We cannot, but Jerry Falwell does occasionally speak with him and he then tells us what Jesus advised him to do. So, I am advising J.Falwell that the next time he chats   with Jesus, he should ask him: “My Lord Jesus Christ, are you in favor or against the death penalty?”

Could you guess what would be Jesus’s  response?

[Richard]

Could you guess what would be Jesus’s  response?

Why guess?

John 8:7 But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That certainly doesn't sound like an endorsement of the death penalty.

[Richard]

So?

[John Dibble]

I couldn't say that would be an all inclusive case, in the case of that quote - if I remember correctly, that's in reference to stoning an adulterer, not executing a muderer. Personally though, I don't really care what Jesus thought of the death penalty.

[David S]

That certainly doesn't sound like an endorsement of the death penalty.

Shira and BRTD
The woman in question was accused of adultery. No where in the US is the death penalty imposed for adultery. In the biblical story Richius cited the woman was not punished at all. In most cases of adultery in the US, the adulterer would not be punished either, and certainly would not be stoned to death.

But what about murder and other violent crimes? I don't know what Jesus would say, but in my opinion the death penalty is a just and fitting punishment for certain crimes. I've given examples of such crimes in other posts but let me cite two of them again and ask what punishment you think is fitting.

A man raped a 16 year old girl and then cut off her arms. In this case there was no murder so the death penalty would not be imposed in any state in the country, but I think it should be. Imagine being that poor young woman. Imagine trying to feed yourself, or bathe, or dress yourself or use the bathroom by yourself without arms. Imagine looking in the mirror and seeing stumps where your arms once were, and being reminded  every day  of the horrible crime that was committed against you. Imagine never being able to touch those you love with your fingers. What do you think should be the punishment for such a horrible crime?

In another case someone carjacked a young woman and her children. He raped and murdered her and then drowned her children one at a time in a nearby stream. Imagine the terror and pain the victims felt. Imagine the anguish of the father who lost his entire family to this brutal animal. Then tell me what should be the appropriate punishment.

[Shira]

 Personally though, I don't really care what Jesus thought of the death penalty.

I personally don't need the hypothetical Jesus's view. I am against the death penalty and most of the civilized world is against it. But as to Jerry Falwell the questions are:
Is he a real Christian?
Does he understand Christianity?
My answers to these two question are NO.
Jery Falwell is nothing but  a fake–phony-fraud.

[A18]

So if someone raped you and cut your arms off he shouldn't get the death penalty?

[Joe Republic]

So if someone raped you and cut your arms off he shouldn't get the death penalty?

I know the question isn't for me (and I'm glad), but if it was, I'd actually be happier to see my attacker stew in prison for the rest of his life.  Yeah, I know, it wouldn't be the rest of his life, but that'd be my only beef.  In any case, I'd love to know that while the rest of my life would be torture, so would his.  Knowing that the chances of him being attacked and raped would also be considerably high.  Giving him death would give him an easy way out.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Could you guess what would be Jesus’s  response?

Why guess?

John 8:7 But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

Although the example was one of a death sentence, the lesson for accusers is about JUDGING OTHERS, and the lesson for the sinner is about FORGIVING YOURSELF and REPENTENCE.

You missed the point by focusing on the example rather than on the lesson; for the lesson does NOT apply only to adultery and the death penalty, but to all sins.

[opebo]

Modern christianity seems to have little to do with this guy jesus, but I also don't care what he said.

[John Dibble]

So if someone raped you and cut your arms off he shouldn't get the death penalty?

I know the question isn't for me (and I'm glad), but if it was, I'd actually be happier to see my attacker stew in prison for the rest of his life.  Yeah, I know, it wouldn't be the rest of his life, but that'd be my only beef.  In any case, I'd love to know that while the rest of my life would be torture, so would his.  Knowing that the chances of him being attacked and raped would also be considerably high.  Giving him death would give him an easy way out.

Well, there's also the possibility that he'll be high on the food chain in prison - he's obviously one sick mofo, so he could do it, too. Many prisoners would be afraid of him.

Now, remember, life in prison may sound bad(and it is) but it's not as bad as you might think. Prisoners get a lot of luxuries that they shouldn't have, and they aren't worked like they should be. I'd consent to getting rid of the death penalty if we could actually make life imprisonment a punishment of the same degree.

[David S]

So if someone raped you and cut your arms off he shouldn't get the death penalty?

I know the question isn't for me (and I'm glad), but if it was, I'd actually be happier to see my attacker stew in prison for the rest of his life.  Yeah, I know, it wouldn't be the rest of his life, but that'd be my only beef.  In any case, I'd love to know that while the rest of my life would be torture, so would his.  Knowing that the chances of him being attacked and raped would also be considerably high.  Giving him death would give him an easy way out.

Actually the story of the man who raped a girl and cut off her arms does not end where I left it. The felon served his time (15 years I think) and was released, despite objections from his victim. Within two years he struck again, this time by murdering a prostitute. So in this case the death penalty would not only have been a just punishment but it would also have prevented a murder.

I don't know how effective the death penalty is for deterring would-be murderers, but it most assuredly deters the person who gets it.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Could you guess what would be Jesus’s  response?

Why guess?

John 8:7 But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

On the flip side…If we look only at the example and not the lesson, then we should at least understand the meaning of stoning a person to death under the Old Testament law; for it was not only a physical condemnation, but also a spiritual one.

The crowd who wanted to stone the woman was not just trying to condemn her physical life; they were also trying to condemn her soul.  That’s why, even to this day, people use the phrase “casting stones” in the context of judging others.

But, if we apply the example only to physical condemnation, then the lesson is ONLY for those having authority to execute people, so that the lesson has no meaning for vast majority…that’s not the way scripture works since its purpose is to preach to the masses and not the extreme minority.

But, if we allow ourselves to apply it to only those in authority to carry out executions, then why do the conversions of those having such authority in the New Testament lack any mention of them giving up such authority?:

1) Cornelius, the first gentile convert, was a man of war, a centurion, with 100 other men of war under his command. Yet no mention of him relinquishing his command is noted in scripture.  Furthermore, he was commended as being a God fearing man evening before his conversion to Christianity.
2) The Proconsul of Paphos was converted and didn’t leave his profession.
3) The Philippian jailer, who carried a sword and the authority to execute, did not leave his post upon his conversion.  To the contrary, he returned to his job!

In fact, of the thirteen conversion scenes noted in the book of Acts, four involve men charged with the authority to carry out executions.  Of those four, three of them are mentioned above, but none of the three changed professions.  (The fourth was Paul, formerly known as Saul, who was carrying out a religious persecution of Christians.)  Yet, the sexually immoral left their lives of sin, as did the idolaters, thieves, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers, etc.  So why not the executioners?

On top of all of that, the New Testament shows respect for executioners and calls them “agents of God’s wrath.”

[Josh/Devilman88]

Ok a man rapes a 6 years old girl.. then cuts her up afterward.. what would you do to him? Put him in jail for 20 years??? So he can do it again.

[WalterMitty]

jesus was a victim of the death penalty.  why would he support it?

[Storebought]

jesus was a victim of the death penalty.  why would he support it?

Because His death penalty offered the only true chance of salvation for all mankind--if you're a Christian, at least

[John Dibble]

jesus was a victim of the death penalty.  why would he support it?

Because His death penalty offered the only true chance of salvation for all mankind--if you're a Christian, at least

Besides, he didn't commit any real crime - he didn't commit murder, rape, or anything of the like. His execution was also anything but humane - he was tortured to death rather than given a quick death.

[WalterMitty]

jesus was a victim of the death penalty.  why would he support it?

Because His death penalty offered the only true chance of salvation for all mankind--if you're a Christian, at least

Besides, he didn't commit any real crime - he didn't commit murder, rape, or anything of the like. His execution was also anything but humane - he was tortured to death rather than given a quick death.

maybe there are people on death row who havent commited a 'real crime'?

[John Dibble]

jesus was a victim of the death penalty.  why would he support it?

Because His death penalty offered the only true chance of salvation for all mankind--if you're a Christian, at least

Besides, he didn't commit any real crime - he didn't commit murder, rape, or anything of the like. His execution was also anything but humane - he was tortured to death rather than given a quick death.

maybe there are people on death row who havent commited a 'real crime'?

I'm going to assume you're talking about people on death row who are actually innocent of the crime they were accused for, which is totally irrelevant to what I was arguing. Jesus was executed for exactly what he was charged with, which he was guilty of - heresy, more or less. Now, what I was saying is that his 'crime' did not warrant such a punishment, or any punishment at all really - it wasn't a crime like murder, rape, or cutting off the arms of a 6 year old, it was not something that did harm to anyone. It was more about him being a threat to the positions of the ones currently in power more than anything else. Those in power abused that power, and killed a man who was known to have harmed nobody, which is distinctly different from executing someone who commited an act of murder. I am of the thinking that the punishment should fit the crime - in Jesus's case, no punishment was really warranted.

Now, as to innocent people on death row, it's unfortunate. I support use of the death penalty, but I want it used sparingly to prevent such unfortunate occurances - only in cases where guilt is absolutely proveable should it be used. Otherwise I'm fine with life without parole, though I'm also for making prisons more unpleasant for prisoners.

[Wakie]

Ok a man rapes a 6 years old girl.. then cuts her up afterward.. what would you do to him? Put him in jail for 20 years??? So he can do it again.

Put him in jail with a bunch of other sick bastards who will pass him around and make the next 80 years of his life a living hell.  Death is too easy for someone like that.

[Shira]

jesus was a victim of the death penalty.  why would he support it?

But Jerry Falwell who appointed himself to be the spokesman of Jesus does enthusiastically support the death penalty. So I repeat my questions:

Is J.Falwwel a Christian ?
Does J.Falwell really understand Christianity?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

maybe there are people on death row who havent commited a 'real crime'?

And maybe there are people serving life sentences who haven't committed a 'real crime', and maybe there are people serving 40 years sentences who haven't committed a 'real crime', and maybe there are people serving 30 days who haven't committed a 'real crime'.....so what is your point?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

But Jerry Falwell who appointed himself to be the spokesman of Jesus does enthusiastically support the death penalty. So I repeat my questions:

Is J.Falwwel a Christian ?
Does J.Falwell really understand Christianity?

When did Falwell appoint himself to be "the spokesman of Jesus Christ"?

[Nation]

Ok a man rapes a 6 years old girl.. then cuts her up afterward.. what would you do to him? Put him in jail for 20 years??? So he can do it again.

I'd put him in jail for life. Who the heck here would put him in for 20 years? No one, I'd hope.