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Poll
Question: Which of the following do you support an independent state for?
Basque   -22 (9.7%)
Kurdistan   -36 (15.9%)
Tibet   -44 (19.5%)
Taiwan   -36 (15.9%)
Chechnya   -23 (10.2%)
Palestine   -37 (16.4%)
Aceh   -14 (6.2%)
The US South   -14 (6.2%)
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Total Voters: 56

Author Topic: Seccessionist movements  (Read 4762 times)
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BRTD
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« on: February 18, 2005, 01:40:14 pm »
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I support an independent state for all except Aceh. I honestly have no clue about that situation which is why I won't take a position. Of course in many of the cases we'll definately have to make sure terrorists don't take over, although this is only a huge problem in Palestine (and it's rapidly improving) and Chechnya. It's also an issue in Basque territory but wouldn't be a major problem since the vast majority of Basques oppose the ETA, and would be an issue in Kurdistan but much easier to deal with than the repression from neighboring countries.
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2005, 01:51:00 pm »
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I support all except Basque.  Because living in Spain is great, so no one need break away.

The best would be if we could get rid of the American South!
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2005, 02:15:47 pm »
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I'm willing to support a semi-autonomous Basque and Chechnya now and am willing to give them complete autonomy once they lay down their arms (after a vote too).  Kurdistan I'm willing to support if Turkey and Iran would also agree to give up their huge tracts of land to the country (yeah, right).

Those are the three that I support conditionally.  The Confederacy can go to hell, and all of the others I support.
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2005, 05:25:09 pm »
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Lunar, obviously you based your comments on historical knowledge. Anyhow I voted for every option listed above.
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2005, 05:32:39 pm »
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US South, Tibet, Taiwan, kurdistan and Basque of those listed.
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2005, 05:35:10 pm »
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Getting rid of the south would have swong the following elections since the civil war:

To the Democrats:
2004, 2000

To the Republicans:
1976, 1960 (probably depends on what you mean by the South), 1916,  1892, 1884

Democrats who would have won since the civil war would then be:
Wilson 1912
FDR 1932, 1936, 1940, 1944
Truman 1948
maybe JFK 1960
LBJ 1964
Clinton 1992, 1996
Gore 2000
Kerry 2004
« Last Edit: February 18, 2005, 05:37:28 pm by jfern »Logged
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2005, 05:38:42 pm »
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Getting rid of the south would have swong the following elections since the civil war:

To the Democrats:
2004, 2000

To the Republicans:
1976, 1960 (probably depends on what you mean by the South), 1916,  1892, 1884

Democrats who would have won since the civil war would then be:
Wilson 1912
FDR 1932, 1936, 1940, 1944
Truman 1948
maybe JFK 1960
LBJ 1964
Clinton 1992, 1996
Gore 2000
Kerry 2004

Yea, I bet everything would turn out exactly the same way after the civil was if teh south made it. Roll Eyes

None of those people would proably even be born.
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2005, 05:48:55 pm »
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For one, Wilson would have still been stuck in the South...plus Johnson and Carter, for that matter.

Basque
Aceh
Palestine
Tibet.

Of the rest...
The South doesn't want it,
I fear an independent Chechnya...
An independent Kurdistan would cause a general Mideast war, and, contrary to popular belief, I don't want a war with Syria, Iran, and Turkey...
An independent Taiwan would mean Taiwan would no longer be independent.  Contradictory, but true.  Or China gets nuked.  Neither of which are good things.
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2005, 06:53:14 pm »
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I voted for Tibet, but really I support all of them.  I'm not keen on the violent methods some of them have used or endorsed, however.

Notably; Palestine. Basque and Chechnya.

I still support their causes, just not their methods.
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Real Americans (and Big Sky Bob) demand to know.


I just slept for 11 hours, so I should need a nap today, but we'll see.
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2005, 07:58:48 pm »
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Options 2-6.
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2005, 08:07:11 pm »
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I voted for every option, but only under the condition that the people in those regions actually wanted to secede.

For example, I doubt the South still wants to secede but it they did want to I wouldn't mind them leaving.
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2005, 08:25:56 pm »
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And where is the option for Somaliland? They deserve it more than most of these groups...
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2005, 08:44:31 pm »
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They're already independent.  They don't count.

It's a quest for recognition there...


Or the guy who made the poll just left it off.  Take your pick.

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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2005, 08:54:20 pm »
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They're already independent.  They don't count.

It's a quest for recognition there...


Or the guy who made the poll just left it off.  Take your pick.



Well, de facto but not de jure independent, yet the UN/'international commuinity' refuses to recognize it. Bah.

And BRTD probably left it off...
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2005, 09:28:19 pm »
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All except the South.  I don't know enough about the sitution in Aceh, but I guess they are being pushed around from their inclusion in this poll, so I said yes.
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2005, 09:41:51 pm »
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VIVA PADANIA!
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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2005, 09:58:05 pm »
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I really don't know anything about Somaliland. I just assumed it was yet another warlord fiefdom in Somalia.
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2005, 02:56:09 am »
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I'd probably support secession for most of those, except I don't know anything about Aceh. A possible exception might be the Southern U.S.

If the South seceded from the U.S., at least the rest of the U.S. wouldn't have to worry about as many right-wing states ruining another election. On the other hand, the rights of many Southerners would be oppressed if the South seceded.
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2005, 02:58:04 am »
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I looked it up and it turns out Aceh wants to secede because they're mostly extremist Muslims.

So I'm torn, on the one hand it would suck to have another Muslim theocracy state, but on the other hand it would probably be better for Indnosesia on a whole if they didn't have to put up with them anymore.
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2005, 03:46:32 am »
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I voted Taiwan only. Officialize the Status Quo. Nobody needs an Independent state, although I guess could be made for the Chechens not being legally part of Russia at the moment anyhow.
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2005, 04:06:02 am »
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Aceh got hit very badly by the recent tsunami if you all recall
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2005, 04:24:17 am »
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I do.

I've seen the question raised how that may affect separatist sentiment in the province.
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2005, 04:37:01 pm »
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I really don't know anything about Somaliland. I just assumed it was yet another warlord fiefdom in Somalia.

Let's see, my computer went into graphical shock the last time I tried to post this, so let's hope this works:

Wikipedia has some stuff

Also of note: Back in 1988, it was the rebellion of this region that led to the overthrow of the tyrant Mohammed Siad Barre in 1991. Somaliland suffered quite a bit early on, what with Barre's forces deliberately massacring civilians. Since 1991, they've set up what amounts to a 'rough republic', which is still better than the 'anarchist feudal tyrannies' which occupy the rest of Somalia. I'd say they've earned their independence, and should be recognized, but don't tell the 'international community'/UN. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2005, 05:05:04 pm »
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All except the South (I would be ok with it if htey really wanted it, but I'm not gonna argue in favour of it)
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2005, 02:10:50 am »
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I looked it up and it turns out Aceh wants to secede because they're mostly extremist Muslims.

So I'm torn, on the one hand it would suck to have another Muslim theocracy state, but on the other hand it would probably be better for Indnosesia on a whole if they didn't have to put up with them anymore.

They mostly want to secede because they are of a different nationality and culture than most of the rest of Indonesia.

The Indonesian government is pretty good at what it does and the pro-independence militia groups are extremely weak.  And I don't believe there is any more oppression in Aceh than there is in Jakarta, so there isn't that much in the way of victimization claims.
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