Margaret Thatcher dies at 87

[stepney]

I would like not to, but I cannot help myself.

Well, she finally contributes personally to her beloved health-care and pension cuts.

Nicest thing I can say, really.

No it isn't, is it?

If you can't say something nice, as the old saying goes, don't say nowt.

[Supersonic]

I would like not to, but I cannot help myself.

Well, she finally contributes personally to her beloved health-care and pension cuts.

Nicest thing I can say, really.

Oh give over.

[Beet]

A giant in our time. RIP.

[Brittain33]

If you can't say something nice, as the old saying goes, don't say nowt.

What do you think the Lady would have said about that rule in her lifetime? Was that her style, you think?

I'm not going to engage in any of this (as an American, I don't have strong feelings one way or the other) but I'm disappointed by conservatives who valorize Thatcher's boldness and strength in the face of dissent by mewling about people speaking ill of her after her death. Where is the resolute courage? 

[Keystone Phil]

I don't think it's bold, strong or a sign of resolute courage to celebrate someone's death.

[Brittain33]

I don't think it's bold, strong or a sign of resolute courage to celebrate someone's death.

Baroness Thatcher would never have sunk to acknowledging, much less complaining about, the words of faceless enemies, whether or not they were objectionable.

It is not bold, strong, or a sign of resolute courage to whine that people are not being deferential and nice to your hero.

This is not a game. Thatcher was successful because she had no qualms about making enemies among a large share of the UK population, and crushing her opponents. You all valorize her because you admire what she did and how she did it. The full package means acknowledging that the people she warred with in life, and described as "the enemy within," do not owe her supporters false compassion, in particular not those who weren't even living in the UK at the time and have no ties to the country.

[Torie]

I might note that many of Maggie's opponents acknowledge in hindsight that at the time she was the right antidote for what ailed the Isles, and infused Britain with the spirit of enterprise it so desperately needed (and the British upper class so disdained - to her disgust). I might further note that many Pubs say the same thing about FDR in hindsight. He was the right man, in the right place, for the times.

[Keystone Phil]

"No qualms about making enemies" but in a slightly different way, brittain.

I don't care for garbage to "be nice" to my hero; I care for them to be respectful. But I guess I expect too much from the slime.

[Brittain33]

I've started a separate thread on the U.S. board in recognition that this isn't the appropriate place for American conservatives and liberals to debate her legacy in light of our own politics.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=171763.0

[stepney]

If you can't say something nice, as the old saying goes, don't say nowt.

What do you think the Lady would have said about that rule in her lifetime? Was that her style, you think?

Well, now, I don't know. But when Lord Wilson died - the biggest buggerer-up of Britain in Mrs T's lifetime, if you hold to a right-wing view of the world, as Lady Thatcher plainly did - did "the Lady" issue any statement along the lines of "Ha ha, that socialist old git's dead" in the manner of our dear Mr Ephraim? I suspect not.

Ditto her reaction to the deaths of Lord Callaghan, Michael Foot, or indeed Lord Attlee who died while she was a prominent front-bencher, but who can, in the Thatcherite view of things, can be held largely responsible for the way the post-1945 settlement turned out, even if he himself would have been largely dismayed by the way it turned out.

I don't have Mrs Thatcher's statements to hand, but I'm going to make a broad guess she didn't react to anyone's death with undisguised glee.

[ingemann]

I would like not to, but I cannot help myself.

Well, she finally contributes personally to her beloved health-care and pension cuts.

Nicest thing I can say, really.

No it isn't, is it?

If you can't say something nice, as the old saying goes, don't say nowt.

He was clearly complimenting her for finally making some sacrifices for the good of UK, because while her policies embraced sacrifice for the good of the country, it was always someone else who had to make them.

Beside for that I have little to say, I don't think that "ding dong the witch is dead" serve any purpose, as it can't hurt her anymore. But neither is a RIP really fitting. So let us remember her as she wanted to remember with a discussion of her policies and the effect on them on UK.

[Boris]

There are basically 5 types of comments on the Internet right now:

1. Those gleefully celebrating her death
2. Those expressing outrage over such comments
3. Those attempting to remain neutral and above the fray via vapid statements such as "a giant in our times" or "transformative figure"
4. Those such as this one pointing all of the above out while noticing how boringly predictable this all has been (although in reality not that boring since I'm bothering to comment in the first place)
5. Those about ice cream

[ingemann]

"No qualms about making enemies" but in a slightly different way, brittain.

I don't care for garbage to "be nice" to my hero; I care for them to be respectful. But I guess I expect too much from the slime.

When Chavez died, lot of right wingers lacked those sensibilities. Whether people agree or disagree about whether Thatcher was a good thing for Britain, it's objective fact that her policies threw thousands of Britons into permanent poverty and ruined entire communities. There are good reasons some people hate her, and I think those people should be allow to show their feelings for her.

[Keystone Phil]

I've started a separate thread on the U.S. board in recognition that this isn't the appropriate place for American conservatives and liberals to debate her legacy in light of our own politics.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=171763.0

"In light of our own politics." I have no idea what that means. What you just said.

[stepney]

Whether people agree or disagree about whether Thatcher was a good thing for Britain, it's objective fact that her policies threw thousands of Britons into permanent poverty and ruined entire communities.

Eh, no, it plainly isn't. Therein the ructions.

[Supersonic]

Whether people agree or disagree about whether Thatcher was a good thing for Britain, it's objective fact that her policies threw thousands of Britons into permanent poverty and ruined entire communities.

Also of relevance:

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."
-Margaret Thatcher

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It is a shame that some fail to recognize that in "RIP Margaret Thatcher", RIP is an acronym, not a verb.  As a whole Britain is better for her decade as PM, tho some individual Britons were not.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I suppose I don't have anything nice to say.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I suppose I don't have anything nice to say.

Neither do I.

[Paleobrazilian]

Great obituary at The Telegraph, as you would expect:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/8093845/Margaret-Thatcher-obituary.html

[BluegrassBlueVote]

She was a political giant that the world hasn't quite seen since, so my respect for her character will never waver. However, as a politician, I hope this day won't cause some of her terrible policies from being whitewashed by American condolences.

[ingemann]

Also of relevance:

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."
-Saint Margaret Thatcher

fixed

[traininthedistance]

She deserves respect for breaking the glass ceiling, and some of her policies were, in fact, a necessary antidote to the problems of the time.

But, she took them too far and caused quite a bit of human suffering, and let us not forget that her policies would absolutely not be applicable to the problems we face today.

Anyway, RIP.  Now I'm going to go listen to some Elvis Costello in honor.  I'm sure he'd be much less charitable, but it seems like the apropos thing to do anyway.

[Vosem]

RIP to a great leader. The whole world, not just Britain, needs -- and deserves -- more leaders who act as she did.

"No qualms about making enemies" but in a slightly different way, brittain.

I don't care for garbage to "be nice" to my hero; I care for them to be respectful. But I guess I expect too much from the slime.

When Chavez died, lot of right wingers lacked those sensibilities. Whether people agree or disagree about whether Thatcher was a good thing for Britain, it's objective fact that her policies threw thousands of Britons into permanent poverty and ruined entire communities. There are good reasons some people hate her, and I think those people should be allow to show their feelings for her.

I'm pretty confident both Chavez and Thatcher would hate to be compared to the other. And there is no comparison, but I'll try to avoid interrupting people's mourning with politics.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I see that the thread title has been changed

Hopefully - once things have calmed down properly in all senses - her death will be cathartic in some way. It's not a question of moving on as such, but in properly coming to terms with what happened during her destructive/transformative/etc (delete according to taste) premiership.