Alsace Referendum 2013 (or: France is a horrible country)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 19, 2024, 01:26:37 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  International Elections (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  Alsace Referendum 2013 (or: France is a horrible country)
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Alsace Referendum 2013 (or: France is a horrible country)  (Read 6774 times)
Hash
Hashemite
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,398
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: April 07, 2013, 01:50:35 PM »

A referendum was held in Alsace today on the creation of a single territorial collectivity, as I mentioned here (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=171235.msg3678320#msg3678320).

It was to merge the regional council and the 2 general councils (Bas-Rhin and Haut-Rhin) and replace them with a single regional assembly and executive which would have the region and department's powers. The deliberative Assemblée d’Alsace would be elected by parallel voting (some in cantons by majority voting, others by list PR); there would have been a separate executive council (like in Corsica) with a regional president. The executive capital would be Colmar (the capital of the Haut-Rhin) and the legislature would sit in Strasbourg (Bas-Rhin).

The supporters of the project said it would simplify regional government, strengthen the region and save lots of money. Almost all members of the regional and general councils voted in favour. Philippe Richert, the UMP president of the regional councillor and a former Sarkozy cabinet minister, was one of the most active supporters of the YES, along with the UMP president of the Bas-Rhin CG Guy-Dominique Kennel. Charles Buttner, the UMP president of the Haut-Rhin CG, was initially dead-set against it but he later supported it.

The UMP, UDI, MoDem, Greens (EELV), a majority of the local Socialists, the regionalists and the far-right regionalists (Alsace d'abord) were in favour.

The opposition included the FN (despite having its regional councillors vote in favour...), the FG, the PRG, the far-left and the unions (CGT, FO). A large minority of Socialists in both departments (around Strasbourg and in the Haut-Rhin) were also against, the UMP mayor of Colmar was also against.

The opposition claimed that the the new scheme would mean more taxes, that the savings it would create were minimal. They also played on parochialism, like the Haut-Rhin's fears of Strasbourg domination. Or, in the case of the FN or the far-left/FG, on good ol' Jacobinism by claiming this was the first step in the "Balkanization" of France. Or that the "European elites" had masterminded this as a way to destroy The Republic, One and Indivisible.

The referendum needed 50%+1 AND 25% of registered voters in favour, in both referendums, to pass.

Turnout was about 30-35%. In a huge shocker, the Haut-Rhin voted AGAINST with about 55% while the Bas-Rhin voted in favour with 65-67%.

In conclusion, France is a horrible country. For once, politicians had come up with something decent and worthwhile, but the voters rejected it... A major victory for Jacobinism and dishonest populism; a defeat for common sense and regional autonomy.
Logged
politicus
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,174
Denmark


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 01:55:45 PM »

Was the status of the Alsatian language in this new entity discussed?
Logged
RogueBeaver
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,058
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 01:56:04 PM »

Ugh. Better luck next time.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,890
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 02:00:24 PM »

*facepalm*

Yeah, I'm not a particularly strong regionalist like Hash, but this proposal was mere common sense. There was literally no good reason to oppose this. Stupid people are stupid.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,398
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 02:06:37 PM »


'Next time' might not be for a long, long time, if ever. A similar thing was proposed and voted on in Corsica in 2003, it was rejected and it has been dead in the water - not even discussed - since then.

Was the status of the Alsatian language in this new entity discussed?

Not that I'm aware of. Nobody gives a sh**t about those matters anyways.
Logged
politicus
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,174
Denmark


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 02:13:24 PM »


Was the status of the Alsatian language in this new entity discussed?

Not that I'm aware of. Nobody gives a sh**t about those matters anyways.

Thats unfortunate, its 40% adult speakers and only 10% children, so its threatened, but could still be saved.

Preserving cultural diversity would be one of the reasons France needs regionalization.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,398
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 04:48:02 PM »

A map of the result by electoral canton:

Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,890
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 04:57:11 PM »

Wow, the divide is really stark.
Logged
Zanas
Zanas46
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,947
France


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2013, 04:24:15 PM »

Do I see a pattern here ? Is it relevant that the parts of Northern Haut-Rhin that voted yes are roughly Roman-speaking areas ?
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.225 seconds with 12 queries.