SENATE BILL: Fair Deregistration Rights Act (Law'd)
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  SENATE BILL: Fair Deregistration Rights Act (Law'd)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Fair Deregistration Rights Act (Law'd)  (Read 3727 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2013, 02:39:00 PM »

Actually you are making it more difficult for yourself. In situations like this you are best to only address the clause in question since (thanks to a handy 2011 OSPR amendment on motivated by an amendmnet to a bill on dogs I think) leaves not included items alone. I can possibly invoke this to protect your second amendment from your third amendment, but it is slighlty more dubious. The other option is for you to update each amendment as we go, but that can cause delays.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2013, 02:54:48 PM »

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Status: Senators have 24 hours to object to the adoption of the above amendment



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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2013, 05:36:47 PM »
« Edited: April 27, 2013, 05:41:32 PM by President Marokai »

Don't try and make it out that I'm the only person who benefits from zombie voters, Marokai. The fact is, they're a part of the game, and everyone needs them. My fear is, we'll have new members join up, sit on their asses for a month or two, complain that they've had nothing to do because they've sat on their asses, and then up and leave because it'll just be that easy. I'll be transparent—I want their votes. So do you. But I think it's also important to realize that people can and will leave for avoidable reasons.

And such is their choice. I think it's crazy to argue against allowing the option of deregistration simply because some people will want to actually use it. The voters! Exercising free will in a way that doesn't benefit us! Oh no! Refusing to give posters the option to remove themselves from the voter rolls just to keep them trapped in some sort of procedural spider web doesn't just strike me as unfair, but vaguely creepy, to boot.

Yes, everyone wants as many votes as possible. But yet again, there's the difference between me and you (and apparently, Napoleon as well). While we will all beat our chests and share our anti-zombie rhetoric, when it comes time to actually do something about the things we all claim to be so upset about, one side finds an excuse to back out, and one side doesn't. I want as many votes as possible in any election I run in, but I support these things because I genuinely believe zombie voting to be a bad thing, and holding people in this game against their will to be a bad thing, and annoying people with excessive PMs to be a bad thing.

At the end of the day though, this isn't an activity requirements bill, this isn't an anti-PMing bill, this isn't something as strict as the HAEV in the bad old days, this is a proposal to give people the option to remove themselves from the voter rolls if that's what they want to do. I don't want to round up voters and keep them locked up in a dungeon underneath Labor Party HQ.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only person in Atlasia that actually believes the things I actually say, rather than just pandering.

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This is a fair concern, but one that is incredibly easy to police, informally and formally. We could easily include a similar law against encouraging deregistration for political benefit the same way we outlaw encouraging people to invalidate their votes for political benefit. Still though, I don't think this is something that is actually going to happen. What would those PMs say? "Hey, opposite-party-of-mine member! You know what I think is rad? Atlasia-suicide! Try it!"
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2013, 06:57:09 PM »

Amendment 54:53 is adopted.

Senators have 24 hours to post an objection to either Amendment 54:54 and/or 54:55, lest they shall both be considered adopted.

I can overlap these because the VP did it in one of his bills and because shut up. Tongue
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« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2013, 07:00:45 PM »

I object to 54:55
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Napoleon
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« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2013, 12:17:45 AM »

You can't really police things like that, Marokai. Seatown got off, for example. Has anyone looked into why Freefair invalidated his vote? I am sure he was instructed to by a higher up in his party. That's unrealistic.

Anyway, the best way to deal with so-called zombies is to find ways to incorporate them into the game. For example, if I am retained as Internal Affairs chair, we will hold hearings on these drug bills and many people will be invited to share their opinions on the subject. There's no reason to encourage downsizing Atlasia when the focus should actually be on finding ways to increase participation.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2013, 06:51:27 AM »

You can't really police things like that, Marokai. Seatown got off, for example. Has anyone looked into why Freefair invalidated his vote? I am sure he was instructed to by a higher up in his party. That's unrealistic.

Anyway, the best way to deal with so-called zombies is to find ways to incorporate them into the game. For example, if I am retained as Internal Affairs chair, we will hold hearings on these drug bills and many people will be invited to share their opinions on the subject. There's no reason to encourage downsizing Atlasia when the focus should actually be on finding ways to increase participation.

If people want to remove themselves from the voter rolls, it is psychotic and controlling to refuse to let them because you think you know better. That is the only thing this entire debate boils down to.

There will be no massive flood of deregistration, there isn't going to be any serious incidents of weird deregistration encouragement (of which I can't imagine anyone falling for), and participation is not a matter which can be forced. This isn't a pro-deregistration ad campaign, this is a bill allowing for the option of removing yourself from the voter rolls if that is your decision, an idea that has never actually been controversial, ever. All the arguments being presented against this idea are perverse and astonishing in how plain and matter-of-factly you're just laying out the pro voter-harassment stuff as if it is a part of the game that is at all desirable. This bill should be passed, and people should be free to make their own decisions free from the harassment of anyone, left, right, and corrupt center.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2013, 09:13:49 AM »

It is a sad day in Atlasia when we have people arguing that we should not allow people to deregister if they wish to do so because it might hurt them in elections.  I do send out campaign PMs (and admittedly may have been slightly excessive this past election with a couple of folks Sad ), but I support a "Do Not PM List" and this bill because I don't want to be bothering people who don't want to receive them and/or don't want to participate in Atlasia.  Why would anyone want to win if the only reason they won was that they essentially held people hostage so that they could badger them into participating in a fake election in an online government simulation?  If we have really become that hyper-partisan, Atlasia-obsessed, and ruthless about this than that is more than a little creepy; it is unhealthy (with all due respect to my esteemed colleagues). 

In all honesty, while it can be fun, nothing we are doing here is really that important and there is very little (if anything) at stake.  People need to keep perspective and remember that because otherwise all this will do is bring out the worst and most ruthless side of those who actively participate.  I know that there's the old cliche about people who say it's just a game taking it more seriously than anyone else, but in this case I think some people really do need to be reminded that it is just a game. 

Ultimately, the fact that some people feel that they need zombie votes or folks who want to deregister to win is simply not a legitimate reason to keep people from deregistering.  I don't mean to come across as harsh or dismissive, but it really isn't.   Trying to keep people registered against their will so they can be PM-harassed into voting is Atlasia at its worst.  I want to plead with any opponents of this critical bill to please do the right thing and support the Fair Deregistration Rights Act.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2013, 11:44:32 AM »

You can't really police things like that, Marokai. Seatown got off, for example. Has anyone looked into why Freefair invalidated his vote? I am sure he was instructed to by a higher up in his party. That's unrealistic.

Anyway, the best way to deal with so-called zombies is to find ways to incorporate them into the game. For example, if I am retained as Internal Affairs chair, we will hold hearings on these drug bills and many people will be invited to share their opinions on the subject. There's no reason to encourage downsizing Atlasia when the focus should actually be on finding ways to increase participation.

If people want to remove themselves from the voter rolls, it is psychotic and controlling to refuse to let them because you think you know better. That is the only thing this entire debate boils down to.

There will be no massive flood of deregistration, there isn't going to be any serious incidents of weird deregistration encouragement (of which I can't imagine anyone falling for), and participation is not a matter which can be forced. This isn't a pro-deregistration ad campaign, this is a bill allowing for the option of removing yourself from the voter rolls if that is your decision, an idea that has never actually been controversial, ever. All the arguments being presented against this idea are perverse and astonishing in how plain and matter-of-factly you're just laying out the pro voter-harassment stuff as if it is a part of the game that is at all desirable. This bill should be passed, and people should be free to make their own decisions free from the harassment of anyone, left, right, and corrupt center.

Im not in the business of harassing voters- maybe Hagrid is, I don't know- but we already have a reregistration system for those who truly do not want to participate in Atlasia- stop participating in Atlasia. All this does is enable the crybabies and make a system needlessly more complex. Its not like were trapping people here forever- they choose to remain a member everytime they vote. Is there anyone who wants to deregister? If so, I haven't heard from them but I would recommend that person refrain from voting in future elections.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2013, 02:19:08 PM »

You can't really police things like that, Marokai. Seatown got off, for example. Has anyone looked into why Freefair invalidated his vote? I am sure he was instructed to by a higher up in his party. That's unrealistic.

Anyway, the best way to deal with so-called zombies is to find ways to incorporate them into the game. For example, if I am retained as Internal Affairs chair, we will hold hearings on these drug bills and many people will be invited to share their opinions on the subject. There's no reason to encourage downsizing Atlasia when the focus should actually be on finding ways to increase participation.

If people want to remove themselves from the voter rolls, it is psychotic and controlling to refuse to let them because you think you know better. That is the only thing this entire debate boils down to.

There will be no massive flood of deregistration, there isn't going to be any serious incidents of weird deregistration encouragement (of which I can't imagine anyone falling for), and participation is not a matter which can be forced. This isn't a pro-deregistration ad campaign, this is a bill allowing for the option of removing yourself from the voter rolls if that is your decision, an idea that has never actually been controversial, ever. All the arguments being presented against this idea are perverse and astonishing in how plain and matter-of-factly you're just laying out the pro voter-harassment stuff as if it is a part of the game that is at all desirable. This bill should be passed, and people should be free to make their own decisions free from the harassment of anyone, left, right, and corrupt center.

Im not in the business of harassing voters- maybe Hagrid is, I don't know- but we already have a reregistration system for those who truly do not want to participate in Atlasia- stop participating in Atlasia. All this does is enable the crybabies and make a system needlessly more complex. Its not like were trapping people here forever- they choose to remain a member everytime they vote. Is there anyone who wants to deregister? If so, I haven't heard from them but I would recommend that person refrain from voting in future elections.

Paul Kemp wanted to deregister, for starters.  I am curious, how does this make the system more complex?  If anything it seems to do the opposite.
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homelycooking
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« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2013, 03:46:13 PM »

Napoleon, you may want to consider an alternative to voluntary deregistration, such as decreasing the number of missed elections required for automatic deregistration from 3 to 2. That is actually something I'd rather see passed than the bill currently on offer.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2013, 04:13:18 PM »

The only potential harm I can see in this bill is it could make life on Homely hard. However, I don't see it being utilized very often. It will give those most vocal about not wanting to be bother a way out, like Paul Kemp and the JJ's of the past, who ran on a platform specifically to allow deregistration after countless PMs hit his last nerve.

I do not anticipate the hordes of "zombie voters" will come to deregister, especially since they have shown no qualms about voting in the past. The uproar over this is unwarranted, methinks. It would give a simple choice to those engaged enough to not want to be engaged, and leave the rest of the voters alone. As a voter and as someone who has been an independent for a good while, it does get annoying to get 10 PMs during an election season. I can only imagine how irritating it is for someone to get them when they are not interested in what is going on in the game anymore.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2013, 04:22:07 PM »

As for Napoleon's scenario where someone gets made, deregisters and then comes back and immediately wants to run for president, why is that a deal breaker? I can see why it is annoying and silly, but we have people return to Atlasia all the time and run for president that have essentially been gone for 2 elections.

The method being proposed by the senate right now seems harmless and will benefit those who really do want the choice to deregister - the Paul Kemp's of the world who are active on other parts of the forum but do not wish to have their inboxes spammed every two months to go vote in an election either care and know nothing about. I really doubt anyone else will take advantage of it, but at least there is that choice available.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2013, 06:19:07 PM »

Amendment 54:54 is adopted.

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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2013, 06:51:16 PM »

Aye
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2013, 02:45:26 PM »

You can't really police things like that, Marokai. Seatown got off, for example. Has anyone looked into why Freefair invalidated his vote? I am sure he was instructed to by a higher up in his party. That's unrealistic.

Anyway, the best way to deal with so-called zombies is to find ways to incorporate them into the game. For example, if I am retained as Internal Affairs chair, we will hold hearings on these drug bills and many people will be invited to share their opinions on the subject. There's no reason to encourage downsizing Atlasia when the focus should actually be on finding ways to increase participation.

If people want to remove themselves from the voter rolls, it is psychotic and controlling to refuse to let them because you think you know better. That is the only thing this entire debate boils down to.

There will be no massive flood of deregistration, there isn't going to be any serious incidents of weird deregistration encouragement (of which I can't imagine anyone falling for), and participation is not a matter which can be forced. This isn't a pro-deregistration ad campaign, this is a bill allowing for the option of removing yourself from the voter rolls if that is your decision, an idea that has never actually been controversial, ever. All the arguments being presented against this idea are perverse and astonishing in how plain and matter-of-factly you're just laying out the pro voter-harassment stuff as if it is a part of the game that is at all desirable. This bill should be passed, and people should be free to make their own decisions free from the harassment of anyone, left, right, and corrupt center.

Im not in the business of harassing voters- maybe Hagrid is, I don't know- but we already have a reregistration system for those who truly do not want to participate in Atlasia- stop participating in Atlasia. All this does is enable the crybabies and make a system needlessly more complex. Its not like were trapping people here forever- they choose to remain a member everytime they vote. Is there anyone who wants to deregister? If so, I haven't heard from them but I would recommend that person refrain from voting in future elections.

I'll tell you how I run my GOTV operation right now, if it's so concerning. I try to contact everyone who I think could be convinced to vote for me about a week before the election to tell them that I'm running, encourage them to follow the campaign, and ultimately vote for me. When voting is open, I send those same people a link to the voting booth. I try to be online for as much time as possible during the election, and if I see my registered voters actually online and not voting, I send them another reminder. If that is "harassment," then boy are you folks ever a bunch of softies.

All in all though, I agree with Napoleon. It's not about winning elections, even if that's how you guys are seeing it. It's not like any one of us disporportionately benefits from zombie voters. I just think there is a very straightforward de-registration process in place. If we are interested in keeping Atlasians engaged, this measure is counterproductive. I don't want people leaving before they've actually gotten a taste of what this game is. And if those inactives deregister just because they think it's easy, we've all lost what could have been a great contributor. I say again: If people can be convinced to keep voting rather than go through the current de-registration process, they're not serious about leaving. Sorry.

Anyhow, I don't think I'll be saying anything else here unless an interesting point comes up. I'm really tired of being accused of stuff.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2013, 08:40:25 PM »

On the current amendment, why is seven day waiting period a problem? I lean against the present amendment for the moment but I am open to hearing a convincing argument here.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2013, 05:41:49 PM »

I didn't see that post for some reason.

AYE
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2013, 10:44:40 PM »

Aye
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2013, 11:35:14 AM »

4-0-0-6 or 5

WTF?!!!!!
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2013, 05:23:44 PM »

Aye

(though I'd like to offer an amendment later)
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MaxQue
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« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2013, 05:09:16 AM »

Aye
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2013, 01:52:59 PM »

Nay.

A little unsure why Ben is voting in favour of the amendment he objected to...
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2013, 01:58:09 PM »

Nay.

A little unsure why Ben is voting in favour of the amendment he objected to...

Because Homely supports it.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2013, 02:22:12 PM »

Ah, okay. I completely missed that post... both times. Tongue
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