What to do with those Darn Immigrants?

[Vlad the Imperial]

Welcome to my immigrant conversation! So what do you think about the current road to immigration, and how should we change it to make it easier for people to get into our country?

[Vosem]

We should liberalize immigration law, to make it generally easier for people to immigrate to live permanently in the US. What to do with present illegals I'm not sure; many of them are also guilty of Social Security fraud, which is quite a serious crime. I'm in favor, generally speaking, of amnesty, but the logistics of it give me a headache.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Social Security fraud, which is quite a serious crime

A serious crime, really?

[Vosem]

Social Security fraud, which is quite a serious crime

A serious crime, really?

Eh...it depends on the format. But the second half of that sentence was worded too strongly anti-illegal-immigrant. I support amnesty

[Antonio the Sixth]

Social Security fraud, which is quite a serious crime

A serious crime, really?

Eh...it depends on the format. But the second half of that sentence was worded too strongly anti-illegal-immigrant. I support amnesty

What kind of large-scale fraud could an illegal immigrant perpetrate? Employers definitely can, and do, but you can't hold immigrants responsible for that.

[dead0man]

We should let more people in legally (as needed) and secure the border more than we do now.  I really don't care what we do with the ones already here as long as the border is secured.

[courts]

go back to pre 1965 policy and fine employers.

[TNF]

Implement a regional, points-based system that favors skilled immigrants (similar to the Canadian system), reduce the number of guest worker VISAs somewhere close to zero if possible (no reason to keep bringing guest workers to the United States when we have ~7% unemployment), establish a one-time only path to citizenship in tandem with passage of the DREAM Act but make sure that both of these measures sunset after a certain period of time and from then on out deport undocumented workers (no exceptions), and fine the hell out of employers who employ the undocumented.

And, just to be safe, pass a blanket ban on guest worker programs tied to a specific job, because they're little better than slavery and should not be allowed in a civilized country, period.

[DC Al Fine]

And, just to be safe, pass a blanket ban on guest worker programs tied to a specific job, because they're little better than slavery and should not be allowed in a civilized country, period.

Plus employers eventually start abusing them. (the programs that is)

[fezzyfestoon]

Treat them like people?

[HoosierPoliticalJunkie]

Implement a regional, points-based system that favors skilled immigrants (similar to the Canadian system), reduce the number of guest worker VISAs somewhere close to zero if possible (no reason to keep bringing guest workers to the United States when we have ~7% unemployment), establish a one-time only path to citizenship in tandem with passage of the DREAM Act but make sure that both of these measures sunset after a certain period of time and from then on out deport undocumented workers (no exceptions), and fine the hell out of employers who employ the undocumented.

And, just to be safe, pass a blanket ban on guest worker programs tied to a specific job, because they're little better than slavery and should not be allowed in a civilized country, period.

I agree.  We need to stop allowing employers to abuse illegal immigrants.  It hurts all parties involved.   I'm not sure what to think about the visas though........we do need more skilled engineers than we currently have.  If we can overhaul STEM to the point that we can graduate enough qualified engineers, I'd support that. 

[Mechaman]

Treat them like people?

The correct answer.

As someone who has a heavy amount of immigrant blood it disturbs me how many Americans can continue to be so nativist considering their own roots.  Nativists like Pat Buchanan, whose ancestors would've at one point in American history been greeted with thrown rocks, make me sick.  These people going over the borders aren't some group of nasty inciters bent on cheating the system.  They are of the same struggle that defined our ancestors.  To deny them human decency isn't just being nativist twats, it's spitting in the faces of our ancestors.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Nativism is stupid everywhere, but it is particularly moronically inane in the freaking United States.

[courts]

Treat them like people?

The correct answer.

As someone who has a heavy amount of immigrant blood it disturbs me how many Americans can continue to be so nativist considering their own roots.  Nativists like Pat Buchanan, whose ancestors would've at one point in American history been greeted with thrown rocks, make me sick.  These people going over the borders aren't some group of nasty inciters bent on cheating the system.  They are of the same struggle that defined our ancestors.  To deny them human decency isn't just being nativist twats, it's spitting in the faces of our ancestors.

i'm 2nd generation american. its not like i haven't known immigrants (legal or otherwise) besides just my immediate family either. does the thought of 'kicking the ladder' bother me? do i empathize with the people trying to escape a dysfunctional situation and provide for themselves? does it churn my stomach thinking of what employers can get away with in terms of farm laborers? of course it does.

but sometimes you have to think in broader terms than just how something effects one individual or another. i think of immigration as being similar to issues like healthcare or taxation in a lot of ways actually. does the thought of someone dying due to healthcare rationing horrify me? do i sympathize with tax protesters getting cracked down on, especially given the hideousness of american foreign policy and a number of other things? of course i do. but they are to some extent necessary evils.

also let's not forget that after a point american society did deny people entry. you may attack buchanan for some of his ridiculousness but he's not denying that irish or other europeans had similar issues assimilating. he's arguing that the us eventually was able to digest non-wasp immigrants because there was a significant slow down in immigration after basically 50 years of (for their time) fairly liberal border policies.

of course one of my big criticisms of buchanan and a lot of white "conservatives" (mainstream or otherwise) is what he does gloss over. he ignores a lot of what created what he thinks of as 'white america.' ' namely the socialist origin of 'the melting pot,' the impact of world war 2 in broadening the definition of who was 'white,' the role of the federal government in creating the archetypal 'white suburban lifestyle,' etc.

[PJ]

1. Create eventual pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants.
2. Secure border with Mexico permeneantly.
3. Encourage legal immigration.
Note: while in pathway to citizenship process, immigrants should not be exempted from laws or rights.