The North American Union

[angus]

I don't understand why everybody is so against Mexico joining our theoretical NAU.  Sure, the first decade might hurt a little, but in in the long run it would be beneficial to both Americans and Mexicans.  Especially Mexicans.  And why stop there?  Central America would be an obvious next step.  I'm not sure if going into South America would work, but maybe a few decades after Panama joins up...

Mexicans ought to have a say in the matter.  First, they do not necessarily consider themselves North American.  In the weird Spanish (and French) geography system, there aren't two continents here.  They just have Africa, Antartica, Australia, Europe, Asia, and America.  Why they would separate the Eurasian continent into two, but not the more obvious two American continents, I don't know, but they do.  (Obviously it harkens back to a time before even those European cultures existed, when the Mediterranean was the world.  By the time people understood the planet's geography, it was too late to change the language.  English, being a newer language, adapted more easily.)  We have the English geographical system ingrained in our heads:  There is a lamb chop-shaped South America and a pork chop-shaped North America, joined at the Darien rainforest in southern Panama, and it seems reasonable, but the Mexicans do not see it that way.  Moreover, when they do think about North America (as opposed to Latin America), they see its southern border as the Rio Bravo del Norte (what we call the Rio Grande).  In fact, Mexicans usually refer to our country is Estados Unidos de Norteamérica (Spaniards do so to a lesser extent, but that name also exists there, alongside Estados Unidos de América).  In all cases, norteamericano, when uttered by a Mexican, refers specifically to gringos.  

Why would any self-respecting Mexican politician support such an idea?  The Mexicans have a history distinct from Spain, and as old as Spain, and much older than that of the United States.  They have a culture distinct from the United States as well.  They also have a political ideology that generally is to the left of that of the US.  In general, they are more collectivist.  Their biggest problems arise from European colonialism and the huge US appetite for drugs.  Why in the world would they want to be a part of the imperialist system that shat upon them and has caused so much grief for so long?  I would want a good relationship with the US, of course, but I do not think I would want to join the United States if I were a Mexican.

Canadians, on the other hand, are like us.  They really don't have a culture or history distinct from their European identities.  Not really, since most indigenous peoples in both our countries were killed off by disease or herded into reservations.  But why would we want them.  Their country is huge, but mostly it is an uninhabited, uninhabitable wasteland.  Less that five percent of the Canadian landmass is arable.  It would just be more land to defend.  Moreover, our workforce would not be particularly well augmented by the addition of Canada.  They, on the other hand, would have tremendously more economic mobility if they joined us, but there would be huge disadvantages for them as well.  For one thing, they'd be dragged into foreign entanglements and power projectionism, and they'd instantly become the targets of those who seek to harm the United States.  I do not think I would want to be part of the United States if I were Canadian, nor as a gringo do I want to annex that country.  We already have a over-sized country.  If anything, it might be better off if allowed to chop up into manageable, bite-sized chunks.

As for the idea of a loose confederation, those never work.  The "eurozone" is a band-aid.  Their Peer Review system ostensibly maintains a budgetary enforcement mechanism, but it really does not function.  One day the European Union will fall apart if it doesn't take the big step and make itself one country proper, with a central government as well as a functioning central bank.  I do not really think that will happen.  Frankly, I think that in the long run richer countries of the northwestern part of Europe, especially Germany, would be better if they cut loose the impoverished ones.  And the only reason those rich countries like France and the Scandanavian and BeNeLux countries wanted a European Union in the first place was because of a deep and abiding mistrust of the Germans.  Reasonably so, I might add.  We really don't need or want that sort of arrangement here, and I suspect more than a few Europeans are tiring of that arrangement as well.

[The Mikado]

I'd welcome the inclusion of any new left-wing voters.. and I guess both Canadia and Mexico would fit that bill.  But on the other hand all those mexican poors might depress wages if a high minimum wage and generous dole were not enforced.

Canada has a conservative federal government and mostly centre right governed provinces so I don't know why you'd assume that.

Canada has a conservative federal government...based on consistently getting >40% of the votes.  If Canada had to vote in a WTA situation like the state-by-state presidential elections the USA has using the USA parties, every province possibly excepting Alberta would be safe for the Democrats.

[opebo]

I don't understand why everybody is so against Mexico joining our theoretical NAU.  Sure, the first decade might hurt a little, but in in the long run it would be beneficial to both Americans and Mexicans.  Especially Mexicans.  And why stop there?  Central America would be an obvious next step.  I'm not sure if going into South America would work, but maybe a few decades after Panama joins up...

This offers no benefits for American workers, dead0man - that's why.

[DC Al Fine]

This thread is very, very frightening.

If this ever happens, we're forming a separatist party.

[Sbane]

I don't understand why everybody is so against Mexico joining our theoretical NAU.  Sure, the first decade might hurt a little, but in in the long run it would be beneficial to both Americans and Mexicans.  Especially Mexicans.  And why stop there?  Central America would be an obvious next step.  I'm not sure if going into South America would work, but maybe a few decades after Panama joins up...

Language is the obvious problem, which is why Quebec should stay their own country as well. The fact that Mexico is a much poorer nation has to be taken into consideration as well, but that can be reconciled within a decade or two as you mention.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I don't understand why everybody is so against Mexico joining our theoretical NAU.  Sure, the first decade might hurt a little, but in in the long run it would be beneficial to both Americans and Mexicans.  Especially Mexicans.  And why stop there?  Central America would be an obvious next step.  I'm not sure if going into South America would work, but maybe a few decades after Panama joins up...

Because it would hurt a lot, not a little, and the hurt would be felt on both sides of the border.  A more powerful NAFTA either as an ultimate goal or as an intermediate step to a later NAU makes far more sense.

[H. Ross Peron]

Excellent idea. It'd be even better to have a "Union of the West" however incorporating all First World democracies (so Anglosphere + EU + Korea/Japan + Southern Cone+Israel) and having developing democracies as associate members. http://www.dwfed.org/path-unite-democracies.php

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

What sort of union are we talking about? NAFTA blacks Americans from buying cheaper Canadian drugs, but American companies can sue Canadian governments and Canadian companies can sue American governments for their environmental laws. NAFTA is fail even with ignoring Mexico.

[TDAS04]

In such a Union, English and Spanish would both be official languages, but what about French?  Quebec would be only a small part of the Union in population, so they would probably want to stay out, as Sbane said.

[DC Al Fine]

In such a Union, English and Spanish would both be official languages, but what about French?  Quebec would be only a small part of the Union in population, so they would probably want to stay out, as Sbane said.

As would the Anglo Canadians.

[Sbane]

In such a Union, English and Spanish would both be official languages, but what about French?  Quebec would be only a small part of the Union in population, so they would probably want to stay out, as Sbane said.

As would the Anglo Canadians.

As would the Mexicans. This will not seriously happen. Come on now.

[RI]

In an ideal world, I've love to see the US merge with Anglo-Canada, Quebec gain independence, and the US buy/annex/however-you-want Baja California.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Absolutely not. Any scenario would be disastrous towards individual liberty especially regarding religion.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Absolutely not. Any scenario would be disastrous towards individual liberty especially regarding religion.

  Because the US, Canada, and Mexico don't have religious freedom

[Hatman 🍁]

This thread is very, very frightening.

If this ever happens, we're forming a separatist party.

One thing we can agree on.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I would adore having a customs union with relatively unrestricted free movement between the US and Canada, but that's about as far as I would be willing to go.

Such is effectively what I'm pushing for in Atlasia, by the way.

[Redalgo]

I'd eagerly support the formation of such a union, provided popular consent is first obtained from the populations of each country involved. Canada and the United States are much more compatible than either of them are with Mexico for a number of reasons but I would still like to welcome them - along with any countries in Central America and the Caribbean that want in.

Hopefully any nearby countries that do not want into the NAU would eventually join another, such as the union developing down in South America. I am also fine with individual provinces or states choosing to secede from the union. Let 'em have their nationalism.

[politicallefty]

Mexico is too dissimilar in culture and personality for me to welcome a union with them, however, I would very much like to merge with Canada.

I agree with this. At the least, this:

I would adore having a customs union with relatively unrestricted free movement between the US and Canada

I hate that we've gone backwards on that issue over the past several years. I'd support completely open borders between the US and Canada.

[Blue3]

Mexico isn't that different.

It just has the Spanish language, and needs more economic development (though Mexico is still one of the most developed countries in the world).

What else is there?

[PJ]

To all canadians reading this...

I know the Americans on this blog are talking about annexing Canada, and that's just a stereotype of the American viewpoint. But, would you be open to a coalition of the two governments where they become one nation, no longer the US or Canada, but the United Provinces of North America? Or, would you be open to Canadian annexation of America?

[Redalgo]

I'd certainly be open to having my state annexed by Canada - though I don't much fancy living under a constitutional monarchy. xD

[PJ]

If America comes under the control of an extreme far-right government, I could imagine OR, WA, MT, the dakotas, MN, MI, and New England joining Canada. I agree with you on constitutional monarchy.