Gay vs. Christian - Jason Collins vs. Tim Tebow

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Bushie, I don't get it.  90% of interviews with athletes, especially football players include them thanking God........what's the problem here?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I just don't think those who don't agree with his decision should be silenced or reprimanded, even those on national TV.

Link us to where this happened in a respectful disagreeing way where there were repercussions?  Mike Wallace is a finksing asshole.  

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

There isn't enough out there for me to accept your premise.  Others may feel differently.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I don't think anyone truly wants Tebow congratulated for being "courageously" Christian. Yes, in some respects being outwardly religious as a Christian in this country can be a challenge even though Christians are by far the majority. The "You're the majority. You don't face unfair treatment/criticism" argument just doesn't fly.

False equivalency much?

The Christian Victim Complex is quite cute. "We're the majority, but when you enforce the separation of church and state, or subject our holy book to scrutiny, we're being discriminated against!"

That isn't what Phil said. He said that being outwardly religious as a Christian can be a challenge in this country, which, so long as he accepts that expressing any belief strongly can be a challenge in some situations, particularly considering the superficiality of elements of the culture, I don't think means the same thing.

His statement is quite clear: expressing Christianity in America can be a challenge. He did not qualify it with "strongly." I am not saying that Christians never face blowback ever, but the blowback they receive is not on the same order of magnitude that Muslims or Atheists get for the same amount of belief expression.

He did, however, qualify it with 'in some respects'. I think it behooves us to wait and see if Phil explains what exactly he meant by this.

Agreed.  The title of the thread includes "Tebow", and this



is a strong expression, which has proven to be a challenge, for a Christian Tebow.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The point that needs to be made is that our media and pop culture make it acceptable to make fun of Christians, but when someone disagrees with the homosexual agenda homosexuality on religious grounds, they're called a bigot and forced to apologize. There's an undeniable double standard. Bravely standing up for what you believe in should be lauded no matter your belief. If you're an evangelical Christian (athlete or sportscaster) and are very open about your faith, congratulations. That takes courage in this society. If If you're a professional athlete who comes out as gay, you're also courageous. Both people have the right to opine. That's a perfect example of equality that so many people dislike.

You lost me at the part I highlighted in bold. Anyone who uses phraseology the lines of 'homosexual agenda' quite clearly does not advance 'a perfect example of equality.'

Hows that?

You can't disagree with homosexuality, you really can't. As I said, it's like disagreeing with heterosexuality. Sexuality is what it is and is integral to people. You can criticise sexual behaviour if you must, though one has to be careful to apply similar standards. If you believe in equality then you cannot suspend that just for LGBT people. In terms of a hierarchy of rights you could argue that women, LGBT, blacks, left handers etc should have a higher protection than the religious. Religion is a choice philosophy.

He believes it's a lifestyle choice, perhaps.  Of course he's wrong if he does, but he's not alone.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The point that needs to be made is that our media and pop culture make it acceptable to make fun of Christians, but when someone disagrees with the homosexual agenda homosexuality on religious grounds, they're called a bigot and forced to apologize. There's an undeniable double standard. Bravely standing up for what you believe in should be lauded no matter your belief. If you're an evangelical Christian (athlete or sportscaster) and are very open about your faith, congratulations. That takes courage in this society. If If you're a professional athlete who comes out as gay, you're also courageous. Both people have the right to opine. That's a perfect example of equality that so many people dislike.

You lost me at the part I highlighted in bold. Anyone who uses phraseology the lines of 'homosexual agenda' quite clearly does not advance 'a perfect example of equality.'

Hows that?

You can't disagree with homosexuality, you really can't. As I said, it's like disagreeing with heterosexuality. Sexuality is what it is and is integral to people. You can criticise sexual behaviour if you must, though one has to be careful to apply similar standards. If you believe in equality then you cannot suspend that just for LGBT people. In terms of a hierarchy of rights you could argue that women, LGBT, blacks, left handers etc should have a higher protection than the religious. Religion is a choice philosophy.

He believes it's a lifestyle choice, perhaps.  Of course he's wrong if he does, but he's not alone.

Even if it was a lifestyle choice, so too is being a Christian. Allowing rights to one group but denying them to another still would not make relative sense.

Hmmm. You missed my point or I didn't state it clearly.  With regards the sentence I bolded, you can disagree with a lifestyle choice.  So yes, he can disagree, I just think he's wrong.