Is supporting the NRA now a radical position?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Yes, at this point it is obvious.  They are a cult of death and any reasonable defense of gun rights falls way outside of the agenda they push.  

The NRA is the equivalent of a Women's Rights group that wants to make abortion mandatory.  

[BluegrassBlueVote]

Depends on your definition. It's clearly an organization run by lunatics that are hellbent on distorting the Constitution, but it's got a large enough amount of support from the American public to the point where it's anything but taboo in certain parts of the country.

[Beet]

Progressives abdicated the debate for 12 years, right after the media decided that gun control is why Al Gore lost Florida by 537 votes (as opposed any number of other possible reasons). This allowed the gun nuts to run hog wild.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Depends on your definition. It's clearly an organization run by lunatics that are hellbent on distorting the Constitution, but it's got a large enough amount of support from the American public to the point where it's anything but taboo in certain parts of the country.

This.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yes, at this point it is obvious.  They are a cult of death and any reasonable defense of gun rights falls way outside of the agenda they push.  

The NRA is the equivalent of a Women's Rights group that wants to make abortion mandatory.  

No it's the equivalent of a pro-life group that wants to sentence women to death if they have an abortion.

[Indy Texas]

The sad thing is that for years the NRA was a perfectly innocuous organization for people who used guns for hunting and sporting purposes. Those people really don't have an organization to advocate for them anymore.

[King]

Like the GOP, the NRA has been pushed unreasonably far to the right by their empowered and conspiracy theorist membership.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Yes, at this point it is obvious.  They are a cult of death and any reasonable defense of gun rights falls way outside of the agenda they push.  

The NRA is the equivalent of a Women's Rights group that wants to make abortion mandatory.  

No it's the equivalent of a pro-life group that wants to sentence women to death if they have an abortion.

I'll have to disagree, Ernest.  My point was that they have stop being a group that advocates gun rights and are simply a group that now advocates guns.  And they advocate them in the most ridiculous of circumstances... i.e. armed guards at every school. 

I can't even identify what exactly their leadership WANTS anymore... but considering their mannerisms, allies, and rhetoric... I've come to the belief that it is wholeheartedly evil.  The leadership is educated enough, they're not so stupid to think armed guards in schools will do anything other than result in the deaths of innocent children. 

[Zarn]

Yes, at this point it is obvious.  They are a cult of death and any reasonable defense of gun rights falls way outside of the agenda they push.  

The NRA is the equivalent of a Women's Rights group that wants to make abortion mandatory.  

No it's the equivalent of a pro-life group that wants to sentence women to death if they have an abortion.

I'll have to disagree, Ernest.  My point was that they have stop being a group that advocates gun rights and are simply a group that now advocates guns.  And they advocate them in the most ridiculous of circumstances... i.e. armed guards at every school. 

I can't even identify what exactly their leadership WANTS anymore... but considering their mannerisms, allies, and rhetoric... I've come to the belief that it is wholeheartedly evil.  The leadership is educated enough, they're not so stupid to think armed guards in schools will do anything other than result in the deaths of innocent children. 

That's not Devil's fan ignorant but close to it. Kids are dying in schools/universities/theaters, where there are no armed guards. Whether you think it would work or not, it is not foolish to suggest it.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

Yes, at this point it is obvious.  They are a cult of death and any reasonable defense of gun rights falls way outside of the agenda they push.  

The NRA is the equivalent of a Women's Rights group that wants to make abortion mandatory.  

No it's the equivalent of a pro-life group that wants to sentence women to death if they have an abortion.

I'll have to disagree, Ernest.  My point was that they have stop being a group that advocates gun rights and are simply a group that now advocates guns.  And they advocate them in the most ridiculous of circumstances... i.e. armed guards at every school. 

I can't even identify what exactly their leadership WANTS anymore... but considering their mannerisms, allies, and rhetoric... I've come to the belief that it is wholeheartedly evil.  The leadership is educated enough, they're not so stupid to think armed guards in schools will do anything other than result in the deaths of innocent children. 

That's not Devil's fan ignorant but close to it. Kids are dying in schools/universities/theaters, where there are no armed guards. Whether you think it would work or not, it is not foolish to suggest it.

The proposal is a red herring and a complete waste of time to even ruminate on. No one is willing to pay for it, especially most of the NRA's membership.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Depends on your definition. It's clearly an organization run by lunatics that are hellbent on distorting the Constitution, but it's got a large enough amount of support from the American public to the point where it's anything but taboo in certain parts of the country.

How about the fact it vehemently supports positions 90% of Americans disagree with?

Some European parties that are considered "radical" have a level of support far higher than that.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Yes, at this point it is obvious.  They are a cult of death and any reasonable defense of gun rights falls way outside of the agenda they push.  

The NRA is the equivalent of a Women's Rights group that wants to make abortion mandatory.  

No it's the equivalent of a pro-life group that wants to sentence women to death if they have an abortion.

I'll have to disagree, Ernest.  My point was that they have stop being a group that advocates gun rights and are simply a group that now advocates guns.  And they advocate them in the most ridiculous of circumstances... i.e. armed guards at every school. 

I can't even identify what exactly their leadership WANTS anymore... but considering their mannerisms, allies, and rhetoric... I've come to the belief that it is wholeheartedly evil.  The leadership is educated enough, they're not so stupid to think armed guards in schools will do anything other than result in the deaths of innocent children. 

That's not Devil's fan ignorant but close to it. Kids are dying in schools/universities/theaters, where there are no armed guards. Whether you think it would work or not, it is not foolish to suggest it.

Not foolish?  Armed guards in every school?  So what are the odds just one of these newly hired armed guards isn't exactly mentally stable?  You wanna spin the wheel, friend? 

[traininthedistance]

Depends on your definition. It's clearly an organization run by lunatics that are hellbent on distorting the Constitution, but it's got a large enough amount of support from the American public to the point where it's anything but taboo in certain parts of the country.

How about the fact it vehemently supports positions 90% of Americans disagree with?

Some European parties that are considered "radical" have a level of support far higher than that.

It's not 90 percent anymore; it's down to more like 80.  The percentage of people supporting background checks has gone down now that it's been in the news and what seemed like a good idea at first blush has been forever tainted with the stain of Obamunism.

[Zarn]

Yes, at this point it is obvious.  They are a cult of death and any reasonable defense of gun rights falls way outside of the agenda they push.  

The NRA is the equivalent of a Women's Rights group that wants to make abortion mandatory.  

No it's the equivalent of a pro-life group that wants to sentence women to death if they have an abortion.

I'll have to disagree, Ernest.  My point was that they have stop being a group that advocates gun rights and are simply a group that now advocates guns.  And they advocate them in the most ridiculous of circumstances... i.e. armed guards at every school. 

I can't even identify what exactly their leadership WANTS anymore... but considering their mannerisms, allies, and rhetoric... I've come to the belief that it is wholeheartedly evil.  The leadership is educated enough, they're not so stupid to think armed guards in schools will do anything other than result in the deaths of innocent children. 

That's not Devil's fan ignorant but close to it. Kids are dying in schools/universities/theaters, where there are no armed guards. Whether you think it would work or not, it is not foolish to suggest it.

Not foolish?  Armed guards in every school?  So what are the odds just one of these newly hired armed guards isn't exactly mentally stable?  You wanna spin the wheel, friend? 

You do realize that there are serious background checks to get a lot of jobs. Security jobs should be no different (unless you work for the TSA). The odds are that most security would end up being on or off duty cops.

[Beet]

I'd argue that living in a country with armed guards everywhere is inimical to freedom. It's a militarization of what was once a public space. The trend of equating public life with the security state / authoritarian life, is deeply disturbing. And the mentality of treating your neighbors as people whom you need to carry a gun because you might one day have to kill them, even in self-defense, I would argue is inimical to the idea of a secure society, as well.

The problem is that when you have an armed guard, the first person a mass shooter is going to off is the armed guard. That MIT policeman was armed, and it didn't make him a hero, it only made him a target. The deeper problem is that guns are fundamentally offensive weapons. That means that the person who wants to hurt someone else first will always have an advantage. You can carry as many guns as you want for self-defense, but the person who wants to kill you with a gun will have the advantage.

That's why freedom can't be enforced at the barrel of a gun. A gun is a tool of death, fear, and coercion, and as such it's fundamentally, I would argue, inimical to freedom, as well as to all other humanistic values. Only the cultivation of people through cultural norms to be good, moral, and to abhor coercion will be able to protect freedom in the end. In such a society guns would not be necessary. Although we are far from that ideal today, we know from the model of other countries like the U.K. that it is possible, that it is life-saving, and we should begin to move in that direction.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I don't think it's radical.....it seems to be the in thing to do now.

[Zarn]

I'd argue that living in a country with armed guards everywhere is inimical to freedom. It's a militarization of what was once a public space. The trend of equating public life with the security state / authoritarian life, is deeply disturbing. And the mentality of treating your neighbors as people whom you need to carry a gun because you might one day have to kill them, even in self-defense, I would argue is inimical to the idea of a secure society, as well.

The problem is that when you have an armed guard, the first person a mass shooter is going to off is the armed guard. That MIT policeman was armed, and it didn't make him a hero, it only made him a target. The deeper problem is that guns are fundamentally offensive weapons. That means that the person who wants to hurt someone else first will always have an advantage. You can carry as many guns as you want for self-defense, but the person who wants to kill you with a gun will have the advantage.

That's why freedom can't be enforced at the barrel of a gun. A gun is a tool of death, fear, and coercion, and as such it's fundamentally, I would argue, inimical to freedom, as well as to all other humanistic values. Only the cultivation of people through cultural norms to be good, moral, and to abhor coercion will be able to protect freedom in the end. In such a society guns would not be necessary. Although we are far from that ideal today, we know from the model of other countries like the U.K. that it is possible, that it is life-saving, and we should begin to move in that direction.

In that regard, all weapons are offensive, even human fists.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Depends on your definition. It's clearly an organization run by lunatics that are hellbent on distorting the Constitution, but it's got a large enough amount of support from the American public to the point where it's anything but taboo in certain parts of the country.

How about the fact it vehemently supports positions 90% of Americans disagree with?

Some European parties that are considered "radical" have a level of support far higher than that.

It's not 90 percent anymore; it's down to more like 80.  The percentage of people supporting background checks has gone down now that it's been in the news and what seemed like a good idea at first blush has been forever tainted with the stain of Obamunism.

I see, so it's down to only 80%. Clearly Americans don't actually want background checks.

[Mehmentum]

Supporting the NRA isn't a radical position, though supporting what the NRA supports is increasingly becoming so. 

The problem is that so many people either don't realize what the NRA is actually advocating in government (most people don't pay that much attention to poltics), or they take the us vs. them approach,  ie. If I don't support the NRA I'd be tacitly supporting the Obama/Pelosi/etc. gun control agenda.

I see the beginnings of the crumbling both reasons for NRA support.  Moderate Republicans who support background checks begin to break the us v. them mentality and let people realize that there is a third way.  Meanwhile, coverage of the background checks vote and the ad campaigns associated with them are slowly making progress with misinformation. 

[morgieb]

Under their current leadership? Yeah.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yes, at this point it is obvious.  They are a cult of death and any reasonable defense of gun rights falls way outside of the agenda they push.  

The NRA is the equivalent of a Women's Rights group that wants to make abortion mandatory.  

No it's the equivalent of a pro-life group that wants to sentence women to death if they have an abortion.

I'll have to disagree, Ernest.  My point was that they have stop being a group that advocates gun rights and are simply a group that now advocates guns.  And they advocate them in the most ridiculous of circumstances... i.e. armed guards at every school. 

I can't even identify what exactly their leadership WANTS anymore... but considering their mannerisms, allies, and rhetoric... I've come to the belief that it is wholeheartedly evil.  The leadership is educated enough, they're not so stupid to think armed guards in schools will do anything other than result in the deaths of innocent children. 

That's not Devil's fan ignorant but close to it. Kids are dying in schools/universities/theaters, where there are no armed guards. Whether you think it would work or not, it is not foolish to suggest it.

The proposal is a red herring and a complete waste of time to even ruminate on. No one is willing to pay for it, especially most of the NRA's membership.

My town is. :/

[Link]

The sad thing is that for years the NRA was a perfectly innocuous organization for people who used guns for hunting and sporting purposes. Those people really don't have an organization to advocate for them anymore.

You mean decades.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Yes, at this point it is obvious.  They are a cult of death and any reasonable defense of gun rights falls way outside of the agenda they push.  

The NRA is the equivalent of a Women's Rights group that wants to make abortion mandatory.  

No it's the equivalent of a pro-life group that wants to sentence women to death if they have an abortion.

I'll have to disagree, Ernest.  My point was that they have stop being a group that advocates gun rights and are simply a group that now advocates guns.  And they advocate them in the most ridiculous of circumstances... i.e. armed guards at every school. 

I can't even identify what exactly their leadership WANTS anymore... but considering their mannerisms, allies, and rhetoric... I've come to the belief that it is wholeheartedly evil.  The leadership is educated enough, they're not so stupid to think armed guards in schools will do anything other than result in the deaths of innocent children. 

That's not Devil's fan ignorant but close to it. Kids are dying in schools/universities/theaters, where there are no armed guards. Whether you think it would work or not, it is not foolish to suggest it.

Not foolish?  Armed guards in every school?  So what are the odds just one of these newly hired armed guards isn't exactly mentally stable?  You wanna spin the wheel, friend? 

You do realize that there are serious background checks to get a lot of jobs. Security jobs should be no different (unless you work for the TSA). The odds are that most security would end up being on or off duty cops.

Where are you going to find the manpower for this?  We already put cops in a lot of schools.  The psychos who mow down students use automatic and semi-automatic weapons.  So... these off-duty cops and millions of new security guards are going to be carrying semi-automatics as well?  Not to mention that background checks are no guarantee someone won't go postal. 

The NRA is advocating positions that will ultimately result in a society that is on edge and always armed.  THAT is why it's radical.  No... don't prevent a Lanza from getting his hands on a weapon in the first place, just advocate positions that will result in a tense police state where everybody is armed to the teeth.  Why?  A delusional belief that citizens have the right/will be able to overthrow the government.  While the other side of the debate is saying YES YOU CAN HAVE A GUN if you pass this simple background check and ensure that it's destructive ability is within reason.

One side is common freakin sense.  The NRA's side is insanity. 

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Under their current leadership? Yeah.

Sadly, this is true.

[courts]

Any organization affiliated with what we call "movement conservatism" in the United States is (ironically enough) a hotbed for radicalism.

radicalism implies having a coherent agenda and set of principles. i think the last ~12 years in particular should make it obvious that 'movement conservatism' doesn't belong in the same sentence as 'coherent' or 'principles.'