SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE: Gov't Oversight and Reform (Game Reform/PC)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I wish you would have spoken up sooner, Nix. Things might have gone better, as it was you became a football with various people trying claim you.

I want to wait and see if someone in the movement will post either an outline for, or a detailed plan itself. If that comes to something then we will discuss its merits, respectfully and with civility. Once that has been completed or if is not forthcoming, we can bring other people's plans to the fore and analyze them. My fear is that if we jumble them together we will have a repeat of this past week, so though some might not like it, attention spans are strained as it is right now.

[Хahar 🤔]

I've elaborated my plan in several different places, but I can do it again.

Two months ago, Atlasia was in an advanced state of decay; if it is not now, it is only because our efforts motivated people to care about the game again. The prime evidence for this decay is in the level of inactivity in the regions; if anyone doubts this, look at the way that we took a whole region literally without anyone noticing. In general, there are a whole host of offices that are unoccupied, and that is not good for the game. I have spoken at length on this matter in the past, so I will quote myself here:

The problem is that there isn't all that much to do between elections much of the time, unless you're an officeholder. There is a place in Atlasia for non-officeholders to be active participants in the game (particularly by starting a newspaper and becoming a journalist), but newcomers don't necessarily realize it because they don't see many people doing those things; rather, it feels like everyone who is participating in the game holds an office.

One way to help address this problem is to make it so that a much smaller portion of the active population of Atlasia consists of officeholders, so that there are more non-officeholders to fill other roles in the game. One way to do this would be to shrink the number of offices in the game; I am in favor of this, but such a solution would not necessarily be politically popular. The other way to accomplish this goal is to increase the population of Atlasia without increasing the number of offices accordingly. In general, when the population of Atlasia has increased, new offices have been created. The impulse is understandable, since people want to welcome new people into the game and help them engage with the game, but it leads to the problems that I have described above.

It is absolutely possible to be involved in Atlasia without holding an office, whether during election season or outside of it. I am evidence of this; aside from two brief stints in the federal cabinet and a one-month term as Governor of the Southeast, I have never held an office higher than regional legislator in the nearly six years that I have been a citizen of Atlasia, and yet I have been very involved in the game in that span. If the example of myself seems distasteful, just look at Politics Junkie, who recently joined the game and jumped right in and is doing great work now despite never having held any office. Atlasia could use more active non-officeholders like him to show that participation isn't limited to the group that holds office; anyone can make a difference.

Obviously, one positive effect that might result from this would be the flowering of newspapers. Newspapers can perform a great public service in fostering a national dialogue (the best example being The Examiner, a model that I hope will be emulated in years to come), but there are fewer now than there were half a decade ago, despite Atlasia being much more populous now than it was then. Perhaps the massive growth in offices over that time has something to do with it.

Aside from a growth in journalism, there are also other potential benefits. Right now, the same groups of people generally hold party leadership positions and elective offices; the effect is to concentrate power in a small group. If there were more people not holding office who were able to take party leadership positions, the two could be split, spreading power across a larger base and thereby democratizing Atlasia. I am sure that there are many more potential benefits that I have failed to mention; the fact of the matter is that the possibilities are endless, if only people are willing to give it a try.

It is specifically worth noting here that (with the possible exception of a cabinet position), every single dead office is at the regional level. Because what happens in each region is irrelevant to residents of the other four regions, the five-region setup is highly conducive to the creation of dead offices; after all, when the Pacific was dead, nobody outside the Pacific cared.

What this suggests is that the regional system is itself the problem; however, any attempts to change the system are invariably met with massive resistance from intellectually sterile bureaucrats like our own beloved Vice President. (Lest I besmirch the honor of these intellectually sterile bureaucrats, it should be noted that I would not dare ascribe to most of them the hero complex or poor literacy of our Vice President; those are his alone.) Because of the impossibility of change within the context of the system, we found it necessary to take direct action in the hopes that people might look beyond their hidebound allegiance to the regions above all else. At first it seemed that that might happen; it is to my great regret that it ultimately did not.

The abolition of the regions is not an end in itself; it is the means to an end. That end is a genuine dialogue regarding what would be best for Atlasia that is not immediately stopped in its tracks as a result of mindless appeals to tradition.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You say increasing the population relative to the number offices could work, what about raising the percentage of active people relative to both the population and the number of offices will that have a similar impact as well?

I've elaborated my plan in several different places, but I can do it again.

Two months ago, Atlasia was in an advanced state of decay; if it is not now, it is only because our efforts motivated people to care about the game again. The prime evidence for this decay is in the level of inactivity in the regions; if anyone doubts this, look at the way that we took a whole region literally without anyone noticing. In general, there are a whole host of offices that are unoccupied, and that is not good for the game. I have spoken at length on this matter in the past, so I will quote myself here:

What this suggests is that the regional system is itself the problem; however, any attempts to change the system are invariably met with massive resistance from intellectually sterile bureaucrats like our own beloved Vice President. (Lest I besmirch the honor of these intellectually sterile bureaucrats, it should be noted that I would not dare ascribe to most of them the hero complex or poor literacy of our Vice President; those are his alone.) Because of the impossibility of change within the context of the system, we found it necessary to take direct action in the hopes that people might look beyond their hidebound allegiance to the regions above all else. At first it seemed that that might happen; it is to my great regret that it ultimately did not.

Could not the same thing be said regarding the opposition to regions, though? Why does the whole regional system have to be abolished to effect a consolidation of offices/increase in competition? More so, I don't see a direct connection between the number of offices, more or less the regions, and the participation issue that Dr. Cynic mentioned in that thread you quoted from. To the extent that participation, and diverse opinions are discouraged both in the Fantasy boards and across Atlasia, does that not have the effect of reducing our population, reducing our active population and serving to encourage more people to leave?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Okay, so obviously he isn't going to engage in a dialogue. Can't say I am not surprised.

The ultimate destination point is probably some form a consolidation plan, which I thoguht pretty obvious going in but I didn't want to discourage engagement by our guests in anyway by limited it thus at the beginning. Clearly that is passed and therefore we should put the cards on the table.

The problem with getting a consolidation achieved is the details of how you shift the states so that everyone can agree and that is a very complex process, open to many pitfalls to be sure. Also, of course is the impact on the Senate. You reduce the number of Regions and by extension you reduce the number of Regions, you run into a problem of dependency whereby the balance of the Senate, and to some extent the size there off is a big stumbling block.

When I tried to get Antonio's plan through last year, it reduced the Senate to 8 members (4 and 4). This past June when we were discussing it in here, it was a three region plan so I offered Six Regional Senators and a five at-large member lower house (or somethign similar).

There is this desire not to risk messing up the Senate, which created opposition to the latter from the President and others, and to the former opposition came both that concern with the Senate and how to reshuffle the states amongst the Regions. The polling I conducted showed the most opposition from the Midwest and the Mideast to any proposed plan, and most support in the IDS if I recall correctly, so make of that what you will (Remember this was spring summer of 2012).

If messing up the Senate is the concern, then you are never going to pass anything, because by defintion changing the number of region's changes the Senate. At that point the question is whether you minimize the impact on current aspects of the Senate (functionally, balance of interests etc), or not and thus risk inserting a point of controversy that could kill what in isolation is possibly doable.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I reject the first paragraph categorically.


Nappy introduced a four region plan, without no details about the transition process, which would have to be included either here or on the floor.

My assumption is that he would probably seek to combine it with his Senate expansion amendment proposal earlier hand have 4-4-4, but that has difficulties to be worked through as well.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Some discussion.


Napoleon is it your intention to combine to two proposals together, or am I mistaken?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Napoleon you want to discuss the aspect of your plan or should we move on to other ideas?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

See now why I wanted to try something new to get this going?


We can either get discussing various consolidation plans and how to make them work, or move on to committee consolidation.

[Napoleon]

Dude you should change the topic header.

We can discuss the recent proposal. I personally think four regions is better than three but I'd rather go with what is more likely to pass- I think four at the moment would work.

What we need to do is open it up to allow the new regions to do whatever they want and people to move for free if they choose to. I don't want to just stick people in a region for population's sake and have them stuck there and I don't think that the federal government should dictate what regions succeeds which. Basically, I support a regional "reset" if we are to go through with this.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Insert picture of RL Congressional Committee

Members
Senator NC Yankee - Committee Chair  
Senator Napoleon - Fill-in Chair
Senator TNF

Current Order of Business:
Game Reform/Pacific Crisis

Topic/Hearing Queue
Committee Consolidation/Meaningfulness
Reorganizing the (non-playable) Cabinet
Special at-large Senate elections

Completed Work
Designating Fill-In Chair

^
The reason the topic subject line wasn't changed, was because the present committee topic has been same since before we brought those people up here. Game Reform is and was always meant to be part and parcel to that discussion as I indicated in my first post on the matter in this thread and in PMs.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We can discuss the recent proposal. I personally think four regions is better than three but I'd rather go with what is more likely to pass- I think four at the moment would work.

What we need to do is open it up to allow the new regions to do whatever they want and people to move for free if they choose to. I don't want to just stick people in a region for population's sake and have them stuck there and I don't think that the federal government should dictate what regions succeeds which. Basically, I support a regional "reset" if we are to go through with this.

So you would expect the free movement would thus reduce the controversy over what states go where. What about the Senate?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Senator?

[Napoleon]

We can discuss the recent proposal. I personally think four regions is better than three but I'd rather go with what is more likely to pass- I think four at the moment would work.

What we need to do is open it up to allow the new regions to do whatever they want and people to move for free if they choose to. I don't want to just stick people in a region for population's sake and have them stuck there and I don't think that the federal government should dictate what regions succeeds which. Basically, I support a regional "reset" if we are to go through with this.

So you would expect the free movement would thus reduce the controversy over what states go where. What about the Senate?

I haven't given it much thought but there are plenty of options

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Which do you tihnk is the most advantageous toward getting the plan passed?

[Napoleon]

Which do you tihnk is the most advantageous toward getting the plan passed?

I have no idea I was hoping a full discussion before the Senate would lend some insight.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The full Senate doesn't seem to be in that business anymore, unfortunately. You can get more insight on matters of importance from a stray dog.