Watergate scandal never happens
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 01, 2024, 10:13:35 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Election What-ifs? (Moderator: Dereich)
  Watergate scandal never happens
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: Who would have won the 1976 presidential election?
#1
Gerald Ford
 
#2
Jimmy Carter
 
#3
Ronald Reagan
 
#4
Somebody else (specify)
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 15

Author Topic: Watergate scandal never happens  (Read 1168 times)
DanimalBr
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 908


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: February 22, 2005, 11:46:56 PM »

Watergate never occurs for whatever reason.  Either Nixon didn't do it or he just isn't caught.   So Nixon serves out the remainder of his second term.  Would the 1976 election have been any different?  Would Ford (as sitting VP, rather than the President who pardoned Nixon) have beaten Carter?   Or would Ford have even been the nominee?   Would Reagan have actually beaten Ford in the primaries like he came very close to doing in 1976.   Or Would somebody else (like maybe Bob Dole or Walter Mondale) have stepped up and won it all?
Logged
Rob
Bob
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,277
United States
Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -9.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2005, 11:53:05 PM »

Nixon was a strong supporter of former Texas Governor and former Democrat John Connally. He would have been nominated, and won the general.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,144
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2005, 12:13:06 AM »

Doubtful that Ford could win the Nomination or would be interested as he was House Minority Leader (and had been since 1965) and absent Watergate he could hope to become Speaker if he stayed in office.

Carter could not have won the election absent Watergate and would be less likely to win the nomination, altho he still could have.

Reagan needed a Democratic incumbent to win the nomination.

Connolly sounds plausible, but I think the 1976 election would still have favored the Democrats.
Logged
The Dowager Mod
texasgurl
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,973
United States


Political Matrix
E: -9.48, S: -8.57

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2005, 12:18:29 AM »

Reagan.
Logged
Frodo
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 24,582
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2005, 04:23:28 AM »

you should have Spiro Agnew rather than Gerald Ford on that list of 1976 presidential candidates -for if there had been no Watergate, he would have been still vice-president, and as vice-president, he would have been the immediate front-runner in any race for the Republican nomination.  his only real rivals would likely have been perhaps New York Gov. Nelson Rockefeller and California Gov. Ronald Reagan.   
Logged
dazzleman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,777
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2005, 09:26:59 AM »

Spiro Agnew's downfall had nothing to do with the Watergate scandal.

True, but the overall Watergate atmosphere contributed greatly to Agnew's downfall.  Absent Watergate, it's quite likely that the Agnew corruption would have been swept under the rug, and he would have served out his term as VP.

Without the Agnew resignation, Ford would never have been a factor.  As Mike said, he had no interest in being president or even vp until it was thrust upon him.

Keep in mind that the 1973-77 period would have been a tough one even without Watergate.  The economy was doing poorly, largely because of the residual effects of economic mismanagement by LBJ and Nixon. 

Nixon's administration signed a tenuous Vietnam "peace" treaty in early 1973 that withdrew American troops, while leave North Vietnamese occupation troops in place in South Vietnam.  Nixon expressed determination to enforce the ceasefire accord, meaning that North Vietnam was not permitted to reinforce or add to those troops (a provision they flagrantly violated), but was stripped of the ability to do so as his power ebbed away due to Watergate.  Without Watergate, Nixon probably would have renewed bombing of North Vietnam by early 1974, and the Vietnam controversy would have been prolonged, in any case.  As it turns out, Nixon was forced to ignore North Vietnamese violations of the peace treaty, but the situation had not yet reached a crisis point when he left office.  He passed the problem on to Ford, who basically had no choice but to abdicate on Nixon's promises to South Vietnamese president Thieu and abandon South Vietnam.

The point of all this is is that Ford's abandonment of the South Vietnamese was a large but unspoken reason why Reagan challenged Ford for the 1976 nomination, and the resultant rightward turn in the Republican party.  I think that if Nixon had renewed bombing and prolonged the Vietnam controversy, it would have worked against the Republicans, and made a Democratic victory more likely in 1976, because by then Americans wanted no part of the war, especially after Nixon essentially oversold the 1973 peace treaty as promising the end of the agonizing US involvement there.

So I have to vote "none of the above."  Without Watergate, the Democratic candidate would most definitely not have been Carter.  Humphrey was out for health reasons.  Given the likely political alignment and reaction to what Nixon's second term policies would have been, the Democratic candidate would most likely have been a classic liberal in the Mondale-Humphrey mode.  Maybe even someone like Ted Kennedy, though not Ted himself because of his personal baggage, which included Chappaquiddick and his severely alcoholic then-wife.
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,206
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2005, 09:38:52 AM »

So the question is...who would have whipped Spiro Agnew in the 1976 General election? And what would a map look like?
One obvious contender for the Dem nomination that I can think of is Edmund Muskie, but there's probably others. Wilbur Mills perhaps?
Hmmm...interesting one...if the Dems hadn't nominated a Southerner, there's a good chance that they wouldn't have carried the South...although this is maybe less a given than one might think: Jerry Ford did carry the White Southern vote after all, just not by enough of a margin to overcome the newly voting, and voting as a bloc, Blacks.
In the North and probably in the West, the Dems would be doing better than they did simply because Agnew would be a much weaker candidate than Ford really was, Carter also was actually a VERY weak candidate...I don't think Watergate really hurt the Reps that much in the 1976 election, grotesque as that sounds.
Logged
Erc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,823
Slovenia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2005, 11:36:11 AM »

Same lineup for the Dems, so Mo Udall probably gets the nomination.

As for the Republicans...Agnew and Rockefeller fizzle, leaving a Reagan v. Connally race...which I would think Reagan would have a good chance of winning.

Reagan v. Udall.  Reagan wins.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.224 seconds with 14 queries.