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  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  U.S. Presidential Election Results (Moderator: Dereich)
  1796
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jimrtex
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« on: February 22, 2005, 07:37:39 PM »

The first contest presidential election, and one of the closest ever in the electoral vote, and in some cases the popular vote.  The 16th state Tennessee had been added, and chose its electors by popular vote.  GA and NC switched to popular election for the first time.

Electors Chosen by The Legislature: RI(4), CT(9), NY(12), NJ(7), DE(3), SC(Cool, VT(4), TN(3), Total 50.

Electors Chosen by Popular Vote: NH(6), MA(16), PA(15), MD(10), VA(21), NC(12), GA(4), KY(4), Total 88.

John Adams (F) received 71 votes from the 136 electors, one more than a majority of 70.  His opponent Thomas Jefferson (D-R) received 68 electoral votes and was elected Vice President, becoming the 2nd person to be elected without a majority of the electoral votes.  The running mates of Adams and Jefferson, Thomas Pinckney and Aaron Burr received 59 and 30 votes respectively.  Some Adams electors may have left Pinckney off their ballot out of fear that some Pinckney voters would leave Adams off their ballots, permitting Jefferson to be elected Vice President (the Democrat-Republicans would not make the same "mistake" in 1800).

Interesting trivia: George Washington received two electoral votes, one from NC and one from VA.

New Hampshire 6 electors.

New Hampshire once again elected its 6 electors at large.  A curiousity is that the 6th place candidate did not receive a majority of the popular vote, and so the legislature chose the 7th place candidate, despite a 2,077 to 980 margin (the top 5 received between 3,719 and 2,867 votes).

Massachusetts 16 electors.

Massachusetts yet again switched it electoral system, switching to 14 single member districts, with the legislature choosing the final 2 electors.  The electoral districts were the same as the congressional districts, making Massachusetts the first state to adopt what we might call the Maine-Nebraska format. 

Massachusetts required that a elector receive a majority, which occured in 7 of the 14 districts.  Elbridge Gerry, who was running as a Democrat-Republican was defeated by 2 votes (though the victor did not receive a majority).  Had Gerry somehow been chosen by the legislature, it would have cut Adams margin of victory in half.

Norfolk County was set off from Suffolk County at this election.  Suffolk County consisted of Boston, Chelsea. and Hull.  Boston included South and East Boston, but not Dorchester and Roxbury, which were separate towns in Norfolk County; the area west of the Fens and north of Brookline, which was part of Cambridge; and Charlestown which was a separate town and a larger area extending north along the Mystic river (now Somerville).

Pennsylvania 15 electors.
Electrors were elected statewide but as individual candidates.  A close election, Democrat-Republican 50.3%, Federalist 49.7%, resulted in a split decision, 13 D-R and 2 Federalist.  However, the results were proclaimed before the returns from Greene County in the far southwestern corner of the state were received.  Had these votes been counted, the D-R would have swept all 15 seats.  As it turned out, one of the Federalist electors voted Jefferson-Pinckney, so that the exclusion of the Greene votes only gave Adams one extra elector.

Maryland (10 electors)

Maryland continued to choose its electors by districts.  Statewide, the Federalists receive 52.2% of the vote to 47.8% for Democrat-Republicans.   3 D-R electors were chosen from districts around the head of Chesapeake Bay (from Ann Arundel County through Baltimore (city and county) and along the eastern shore to Kent County.

One elector voted for Adams and Jefferson, but this would represent a Federalist splitting his vote.

Virginia (21 electors)

The electors were chosen by electoral district, but no returns are available.  Adams secured one electoral vote.

North Carolina (12 electors)

The electors were chosen by electoral district, but no returns are available.  Adams also secured one electoral voter here as well.

Georgia (4 electors)

The four electors were chosen statewide, with all 4 supporting Jefferson.  There was substantial differences in the level of support:  (D-R) 6,200; (D-R) 4,610; (D-R) 4,357; (D-R) 3,965; (F) 2,644; (F) 2,357; (F) 1,042; F (910); F (710);
40 other candidates received downwards from 254 votes, with 34 receiving less than 20.

Kentucky (4 electors)

The electors were chosen by electoral district, but no returns are available.
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A18
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2005, 03:06:47 PM »

Who did Washington vote for in 1796?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2005, 11:03:11 PM »

Who did Washington vote for in 1796?
I don't know.  In the states where county votes are available there were often very lopsided results.   This suggests that often voting was still for the elector rather than the presidential candidate.  Even if you knew that Joe Smith was a supporter of Adams or Jefferson, you might vote for Smith as respected community leader.  This might be especially true in cases like Virginia where electors were chosen by district (Washington's district would have been Fairfax, Prince William, and Stafford counties).

In addition, some of the final decisions might have been made when the electors met in their respective states.  For example, in 1796, Jefferson received votes from 20 of 21 electors in Virginia.  But Samuel Adams received 15 votes, while Aaron Burr, Jefferson's nominal running mate only received 1.  All of Sam Adams electoral votes in the 1796 election came from Virginia.

Washington might not have voted.  The capital was still New York City.  Absentee voting might not have been possible, and it would be several days travel to Virginia.
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Kevinstat
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2005, 09:49:06 PM »

jmrtex,

So I assume the other Federalist elector voted for Adams and Pinckney.  I had figured, when I thought about the 1796 electoral vote earlier, that 13 of Pennsylvania's electors voted for Jefferson and Burr, 1 voted for Jefferson and Pinckney, and 1 voted for Adams and Pinckney, but I didn't want to assume that was the case without hearing it conclusively from a reliable source (because the split could, given the state's electoral vote totals, have been 12 Jefferson-Burr electors, 2 Jefferson-Pinckney electors, and 1 Adams-Burr elector).

Besides Pennsylvania, there were three other states where no candidate received all of the electoral votes (if one candidate received all of a states electoral votes, that means all of the electors in that state voted for him, and one other candidate if the total number of electoral votes is twice the state's number of electors; beyond that, the electoral vote totals in themselves don't tell you what combinations of two candidates the individual electors voted for in that state).  Those states were Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina.  If someone knew for certain who the Adams electors in Virginia and North Carolina respectively voted for besides Adams and/or who the Jefferson electors (besides the Federalist elector who voted for both Jefferson and Adams) voted for besides Jefferson, could you please tell me through a reply on this thread?

Sincerely,

Kevin Lamoreau
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jimrtex
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2005, 09:23:58 PM »

So I assume the other Federalist elector voted for Adams and Pinckney.  I had figured, when I thought about the 1796 electoral vote earlier, that 13 of Pennsylvania's electors voted for Jefferson and Burr, 1 voted for Jefferson and Pinckney, and 1 voted for Adams and Pinckney, but I didn't want to assume that was the case without hearing it conclusively from a reliable source (because the split could, given the state's electoral vote totals, have been 12 Jefferson-Burr electors, 2 Jefferson-Pinckney electors, and 1 Adams-Burr elector).

Besides Pennsylvania, there were three other states where no candidate received all of the electoral votes (if one candidate received all of a states electoral votes, that means all of the electors in that state voted for him, and one other candidate if the total number of electoral votes is twice the state's number of electors; beyond that, the electoral vote totals in themselves don't tell you what combinations of two candidates the individual electors voted for in that state).  Those states were Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina.  If someone knew for certain who the Adams electors in Virginia and North Carolina respectively voted for besides Adams and/or who the Jefferson electors (besides the Federalist elector who voted for both Jefferson and Adams) voted for besides Jefferson, could you please tell me through a reply on this thread?
I don't know who the electors voted for.  What I do know is that the electors in Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina were elected by electoral district.

In Maryland, Jefferson carried 3 districts.  It is reasonable to infer that the 3 electors voted for Jefferson and Burr, since we know that there must have been one Jefferson and Adams elector (one district had a 1344-1340 margin for the Federalist elector, so we might at least wishfully attribute the split vote to this elector from the 4th district (western Maryland beyond Frederick County).  This means that the 7 Adams electors split (4 Thomas Pinckney, 2 Patrick Henry, and 1 Thomas Jefferson).

In Virginia, it might be possible that a Federalist elector carried one district (no returns were located) and voted for Adams and Pinckney.  The problem with this is that George Washington received one electoral vote.  An elector from Virginia could not legally vote for both Jefferson and Washington.  So possibly, like in Maryland, there was one elector who voted for Jefferson and Adams.  This would mean that like in Pennsylvania, there was also a Jefferson and Pinckney elector.  This would split the second for the 20 Jefferson votes (as Samuel Adams 15, John Adams 1, Thomas Pinckney 1, George Clinton 3).

In North Carolina, the simplest assumption is that one elector voted for Adams and Pinckney.  This would split the 2nd vote for the 11 Jefferson electors as (Burr 6, James Iredell 3, Charles Pinckney 1, and George Washington 1).  It would have been legal for a North Carolina elector to vote for Jefferson and Washington.
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Kevinstat
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2005, 11:36:29 PM »
« Edited: September 11, 2005, 10:02:05 PM by Kevinstat »

I don't know who the electors voted for.  What I do know is that the electors in Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina were elected by electoral district.

Thank you for that information.

In Maryland, Jefferson carried 3 districts.  It is reasonable to infer that the 3 electors voted for Jefferson and Burr, since we know that there must have been one Jefferson and Adams elector (one district had a 1344-1340 margin for the Federalist elector, so we might at least wishfully attribute the split vote to this elector from the 4th district (western Maryland beyond Frederick County).  This means that the 7 Adams electors split (4 Thomas Pinckney, 2 Patrick Henry, and 1 Thomas Jefferson).

That does make the most sense, and is what I had expected probably was the case even though I wasn't sure.  John (not Patrick) Henry of Maryland is listed as a Democratic-Republican, but it would make more sense for a Federalist elector to vote for him than for Aaron Burr whom all electors must have known was a leading choice of the Democratic-Republican electors for Vice President.

In Virginia, it might be possible that a Federalist elector carried one district (no returns were located) and voted for Adams and Pinckney.  The problem with this is that George Washington received one electoral vote.  An elector from Virginia could not legally vote for both Jefferson and Washington.  So possibly, like in Maryland, there was one elector who voted for Jefferson and Adams.  This would mean that like in Pennsylvania, there was also a Jefferson and Pinckney elector.  This would split the second for the 20 Jefferson votes (as Samuel Adams 15, John Adams 1, Thomas Pinckney 1, George Clinton 3).

If one elector from Virginia voted for both Jefferson and Adams, than that would mean one elector from Virginia must have voted for neither Jefferson nor John Adams, since Jefferson and John Adams combined to receive 21 electoral votes which was the number of electors from Virginia.  If any presidential elector had not voted for either of those two major Presidential candidates in that election, I'm pretty sure it would have been well recorded and that it would be noted on any detailed history of early U.S. Presidential elections, and I have never heard anything about an elector not voting for either of those two candidates.  So I'm almost entirely sure that each elector from Virginia voted for either John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, but not both, and one additional candidate.  And since, as you pointed out, an elector from Virginia could not have voted for both Jefferson and Washington, the elector who voted for Washington must have been the same elector who voted for John Adams.  Since all eight of South Carolina's electors voted for both Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Pinckney, it does not seem outlandish that one of Virginia's electors did the same.  And the south was the region of the country where Hamilton was hoping enough electors would vote for Pinckney but not Adams that Pinckney would be elected President.  So, thanks for helping me fairly conclusively answer my question relating to Virginia.

In North Carolina, the simplest assumption is that one elector voted for Adams and Pinckney.  This would split the 2nd vote for the 11 Jefferson electors as (Burr 6, James Iredell 3, Charles Pinckney 1, and George Washington 1).  It would have been legal for a North Carolina elector to vote for Jefferson and Washington.

Your assumption is definitely plausible, but here there is certainly at least one other reasonable posibility - that the elector who voted for John Adams also voted for George Washington, as most likely happened in Virginia.  Also, Charles Pinckney, who four years later would be Adams' running-mate, could have received the second vote of the Adams elector.  The elector who voted for Thomas Pinckney could have been a Jefferson elector, like the eight electors from South Carolina and, I believe now, one from Virginia.  So I remain unsure as to the answer to my question regarding North Carolina, although I imagine that the 6 and 3 electors who voted for Aaron Burr and James Irdell respectively voted for the same other candidate, which in each case would have to have been Thomas Jefferson.  Because of the regional pattern and since there was a precendent for electors to vote for George Washington and John Adams, I am leaning towards one elector from North Carolina voting for those two candidates.

Thank you for giving each of these questions (except for the one about Pennsylvania, which hardly needed to be asked in the first place), especially for the tip about the impossibility of a Washington-Jefferson elector from Virginia.

Sincerely,

Kevin Lamoreau
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Kevinstat
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2005, 11:41:19 PM »

Oh yes, I know George Washington was not standing for the office of President in 1796; I just happened to use the term candidate regarding him because I am used to using that term for people receiving popular and/or electoral votes.
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