Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

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Huffington Post

[politicus]

This guy is interesting. Wonder how much of a reformer he is.

[anvi]

Nice.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Really beautiful. Pope Francis has kept exceeding already high expectations.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Good for Frankie.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Sounds like Francis would agree with the quote in my sig.

“Always it is easier to pay homage to prophets than to heed the direction of their vision.”
                Clinton Lee Scott

It definitely sounds like he is saying it is more important to act as Jesus the man did than to revere him as Jesus the king.

In the words of John 14:23-24:

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[Dr. Cynic]

Well, I'm glad Pope Frankie Five Angels is being so nice about it. I suppose he isn't as bad as I thought.

[anvi]

Sounds like Francis would agree with the quote in my sig.

“Always it is easier to pay homage to prophets than to heed the direction of their vision.”
                Clinton Lee Scott

It definitely sounds like he is saying it is more important to act as Jesus the man did than to revere him as Jesus the king.

In the words of John 14:23-24:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I like this post very much, Ernest.  One of my few remaining intellectual ("spiritual") loyalties to Catholicism lies in its commitment to the essential importance of works to salvation.  Francis' statement is an admirable expression of that, as is your post.

[ilikeverin]

What a sweetheart!  I continue to want to *hughughug* him.

[afleitch]

From a Catholic theological perspective it makes sense. I've heard it from a few priests but didn't think the Pope would say it.

[Landslide Lyndon]

If only our own religious leaders dared to say such a thing.

[Niemeyerite]

He's the best Pope since John Paul I.

This atheist approves of Francis.

[7,052,770]

FF.

[windjammer]

Just FF! Long live the Pope and the catholic church!

[DC Al Fine]

From a Catholic theological perspective it makes sense. I've heard it from a few priests but didn't think the Pope would say it.

Could you explain this a bit more?

[DemPGH]

You have to wonder what the implications of that are. This almost smacks of Vatican III. There's been a serious rolling back of their rhetoric in the last 50 years.

But as a mature adult I never really understood why belief in impossible things would be a requirement. If a person is naturally benevolent, or how about easily benevolent, doesn't that speak for them more than if they do penances, alms, Hail Marys, and so on just to avoid condemnation??

[Blue3]

You have to wonder what the implications of that are. This almost smacks of Vatican III. There's been a serious rolling back of their rhetoric in the last 50 years.

But as a mature adult I never really understood why belief in impossible things would be a requirement. If a person is naturally benevolent, or how about easily benevolent, doesn't that speak for them more than if they do penances, alms, Hail Marys, and so on just to avoid condemnation??

It's been doctrine since Vatican II... they just haven't talked about it much.

[angus]

This guy is interesting.

Not as interesting as the Hitler Youth guy was.   

Also, you do understand that "reformer" means something totally different among the College of Cardinals than it means at the US Election Atlas Forum, right? 

[politicus]

You do understand that "reformer" means something totally different among the College of Cardinals than it means at the US Election Atlas Forum, right?  

Not quite sure what you are getting at here buddy.

Large part of my family is Catholic and I worked at a Jesuit school, so I know my way around the various factions in the Church - especially the reformist ones (which are of course dominant in Denmark).
 
The Atlas forum and its terminology is not a reference point of mine, dunno why you thought that.

Not as interesting as the Hitler Youth guy was.  

Benedikt was a bore in every possible way. A highly intellectual and intelligent bore, but they are the worst kind. Nothing remotely interesting about him.

[angus]

Large part of my family is Catholic and I worked at a Jesuit school, so I know my way around the various factions in the Church - especially the reformist ones (which are of course dominant in Denmark).

Most of my family was catholic too.  Got an uncle who's a priest.  He even smokes French cigarettes.  I also taught in a private school, albeit a Jewish one and not a Catholic one, but it was heavily attended religious scholars of all stripes.  Not sure that gives me (or you) any inside info on the workings of the vatican.  Certainly it's nothing to brag about.  But what do I know, I haven't been to mass in 20 years, and only then on the occasion of my mother's requiem mass.

Anyway, the point about reform was that many folks read it in the wapo or the NYT or whatever, and they make it something that it's not.  To yankees, "reform" means all sorts of things, everything from female altar boys to married priests.  Don't count on any of that.  "Reform" in such circles usually refers to vatican city bureaucracy.  Not that it isn't needed, and it'd be refreshing if any reforms occur, but don't count on your priest being able to come out of the closet and marry his boyfriend in a highly-publicized marriage ceremony officiated by the new Argentine pope.

And yes, I do think Mr. Ratzinger was something of a character.  Not too many popes can claim to have been Hitler youth, and although many of them can claim to have angered the muslims, not many can claimed to find only "evil and inhuman things" in Muhammed's teachings.  At least he had the decency to offend the Danish editorial community only a few months earlier. 

[DC Al Fine]

This guy is interesting.

Not as interesting as the Hitler Youth guy was.   

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Is it just me, or are Popes getting more liberal?

[angus]

This guy is interesting.

Not as interesting as the Hitler Youth guy was.   

you didn't find him interesting either?

Dude, he wrote more than 60 books.  I can't say I've read them but I found him interesting.  For example, he was also known as a "reformer."  During the second vatican council he adopted the idea of return to the purity and originality.  Reading the bible and the writing of early theologians.  During his first papal mass, he wanted to be greeted by a newly married couple and their child rather than the entire college of cardinals.  During his papacy he continued as a reformer, merging administrative duties of several agencies and creating a New Evangelization council.  All the while he maintained a hard line against relativism and talked his predecessor into trying to investigate allegations of sexual abuse by priests more thoroughly.  We have had many threads about him on this forum, and the net impression that one gets from reading them is that he is generally an interesting fellow.  He retired!  How many popes emeriti have there been?  That alone is pretty interesting. 

A couple of months ago, whenever it was, there were all these articles and talking head shows about him and his future legacy.  The main thing I took away from it is that he'll always seem boring to most non-scholars, because he was a cantankerous academic--polls among catholics back this up, showing that few view his legacy as "positive" as they view others--but actually he was a strong teacher-priest who sought to bring the church back to its roots.  I think people who study this sort of thing generally find him to have been very influential.  In my opinion, that makes him interesting.

The new guy may be interesting as well, but so far not as interesting as Hitler Youth Pope.  I think the exceedingly broad ecumenical statement which is the subject of this thread will get lots of circulation, but don't over play it.  Lots of popes have tried varying degrees of magnanimity, with varying degrees of success.  Not only popes.  Hardworking priests do that as well, and on a real scale.  They do it every day.  And they don't expect to have newspaper editorials written extolling their virtues.  They do it because they believe that it's the right thing to do.

[patrick1]

Angus, I think the eye roll is on your insistence at calling him Hitler youth- Even though every male born at the age was a Hitler youth. It would be like mentioning that you signed the Selective service in a disparaging context.

[angus]

I'm aware that his father's overt animosity toward the NSDAP resulted in his family's financial ruin.  I'm aware of how such a thing early in life would teach you to go along to get along.  I don't hold it against him.  The Fox News channel made much of the fact that he was a reluctant member and actually refused to attend meetings, and we discussed that here.  Anyway, he was thoroughly vetted, not only by the people who officially do the vetting but by the all-important US Election Atlas Forum, but I'd be lying if I said that the fact that he was a Hitler Youth as well as the Pope isn't interesting.  You'd be lying if you said that as well.  Not many people are going to be able to make such a claim.  That, too, adds to the fascination.  

This is a left-leaning forum, and I understand that feed-the-poor types are always going to be more in vogue here than cantankerous academicians, but I'm just not going to sit idly by while the new guy is called interesting without interjecting that the old guy was at least as interesting.  More so, imho.

Normally, religious matters are beyond my scope, but the Catholic Church is more of a political organization than a religion, so it's fair game.  Their kingmaking ability has no doubt diminished in the past 500 years or so, but they are still major players in world politics.  Don't you agree?