The Oldiesfreak Deluge of Absurdity, Ignorance, and Bad Posts III

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I completely get that (and I actually agree with you!), my issue was mainly that the opinion from Shua and theotherguywhoIdon'tremember was being dismissed, and people were getting super pissed off all of the sudden, not on its merits, but merely because they are white people stating it.

It isn't because shua is white. It is because he is white and tried to diminish the importance of race when talking about a word that only has meaning in a racial context. Ask visible minorities whether race matters and the answer will be a unanimous yes. Ask white people and it will nearly always be downplayed. Naturally, being reminded of this omnipresent fact infuriates me.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I am baffled by the outrage at Shua's post, here. I'm kind of sick and tired of people being told they're not allowed to have opinions on s**t. The amount of hair-trigger outrage and strawmanning went from zero to one-hundred in a way I don't think I've ever seen happen in so short a time.

What I've basically gathered here is: White people aren't allowed to have any opinion on anything race-related. (Unless that opinion happens to be completely agreement with said people.) People of a said race who share that opinion don't matter, because a white person's opinion is always illegitimate. And I would, of course, think exactly that, because I'm white. Therefore, checkmate against me, I guess.

I too have been told that I am not allowed to form opinions on race by nature of being white (and more importantly, being a former white nationalist asshole) in the past, and ironically, it was positions like that that brought me to hatred in the first place.

Also, if the N-word is a symbol of black unity and expression (which I think is fine), why is the Confederate flag so controversial? And please don’t respond with “false equivalency.” If the N-word, a word of hate, is a symbol of pride now, I don’t see why a flag of hate can’t be the same thing.

[bedstuy]

I completely get that (and I actually agree with you!), my issue was mainly that the opinion from Shua and theotherguywhoIdon'tremember was being dismissed, and people were getting super pissed off all of the sudden, not on its merits, but merely because they are white people stating it.

It isn't because shua is white. It is because he is white and tried to diminish the importance of race when talking about a word that only has meaning in a racial context. Ask visible minorities whether race matters and the answer will be a unanimous yes. Ask white people and it will nearly always be downplayed.

There's a big flaw in your argument there.  The n-word could be a problematic and overused word in the black community, while being far more offensive and universally problematic when used by white folk.  The racial context obviously matters, but it doesn't cancel out the history and meaning of the n-word completely.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I am baffled by the outrage at Shua's post, here. I'm kind of sick and tired of people being told they're not allowed to have opinions on s**t. The amount of hair-trigger outrage and strawmanning went from zero to one-hundred in a way I don't think I've ever seen happen in so short a time.

What I've basically gathered here is: White people aren't allowed to have any opinion on anything race-related. (Unless that opinion happens to be completely agreement with said people.) People of a said race who share that opinion don't matter, because a white person's opinion is always illegitimate. And I would, of course, think exactly that, because I'm white. Therefore, checkmate against me, I guess.

I too have been told that I am not allowed to form opinions on race by nature of being white (and more importantly, being a former white nationalist asshole) in the past, and ironically, it was positions like that that brought me to hatred in the first place.

Also, if the N-word is a symbol of black unity and expression (which I think is fine), why is the Confederate flag so controversial? And please don’t respond with “false equivalency.” If the N-word, a word of hate, is a symbol of pride now, I don’t see why a flag of hate can’t be the same thing.

Can someone else please explain this to "Sanchez" in a thoughtful way? I cannot deal with this in a productive way.

[NewYorkExpress]

I am baffled by the outrage at Shua's post, here. I'm kind of sick and tired of people being told they're not allowed to have opinions on s**t. The amount of hair-trigger outrage and strawmanning went from zero to one-hundred in a way I don't think I've ever seen happen in so short a time.

What I've basically gathered here is: White people aren't allowed to have any opinion on anything race-related. (Unless that opinion happens to be completely agreement with said people.) People of a said race who share that opinion don't matter, because a white person's opinion is always illegitimate. And I would, of course, think exactly that, because I'm white. Therefore, checkmate against me, I guess.

I too have been told that I am not allowed to form opinions on race by nature of being white (and more importantly, being a former white nationalist asshole) in the past, and ironically, it was positions like that that brought me to hatred in the first place.

Also, if the N-word is a symbol of black unity and expression (which I think is fine), why is the Confederate flag so controversial? And please don’t respond with “false equivalency.” If the N-word, a word of hate, is a symbol of pride now, I don’t see why a flag of hate can’t be the same thing.

I'll wade in and say that I don't believe use of the N-word (by anyone) or usage of the Confederate Flag (for any reason) is okay... They're both symbols of hate, and to claim otherwise is foolish, no matter the motive.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Also, if the N-word is a symbol of black unity and expression (which I think is fine), why is the Confederate flag so controversial? And please don’t respond with “false equivalency.” If the N-word, a word of hate, is a symbol of pride now, I don’t see why a flag of hate can’t be the same thing.

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint, but there is a difference. I was kind of hoping Deadflag would do it for me, since I'm not sure I want to really bother wading in to explain this either.

[Paul Kemp]

Also, if the N-word is a symbol of black unity and expression (which I think is fine), why is the Confederate flag so controversial? And please don’t respond with “false equivalency.” If the N-word, a word of hate, is a symbol of pride now, I don’t see why a flag of hate can’t be the same thing.

Do you really not understand the difference here?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Also, if the N-word is a symbol of black unity and expression (which I think is fine), why is the Confederate flag so controversial? And please don’t respond with “false equivalency.” If the N-word, a word of hate, is a symbol of pride now, I don’t see why a flag of hate can’t be the same thing.

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint, but there is a difference. I was kind of hoping Deadflag would do it for me, since I'm not sure I want to really bother wading in to explain this either.

My basic point in raising the Confederate flag issue is that racial discord will always subtly exist, and that using racial differences to diminish arguments can be reversed. I no longer am “pro stars and bars” like I once, but I really find the obsession on racial differences frankly pointless. Yes, racism doesn’t go away. Racism didn’t end in the Johnson presidency. But is really worth arguing race over a word? It seems to me that a lot of racists and self described anti-racists are both hell bent on continuing these conflicts only to relive the passions of the civil rights movement.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Also, if the N-word is a symbol of black unity and expression (which I think is fine), why is the Confederate flag so controversial? And please don’t respond with “false equivalency.” If the N-word, a word of hate, is a symbol of pride now, I don’t see why a flag of hate can’t be the same thing.

Do you really not understand the difference here?

REALLY?

Alright...  the n-word is one that was used to denigrate and de-humanise an entire race, so they've taken the power out of the word and claim it as a sign of strength and btw there are few black people who still don't like the word.

As for the Confederate flag? It's a symbol that represents a dark part of American history, there is no 'evolution' of what that flag means. The confederate flag was always a symbol of white-ness in the South, if anything it's evolved into something far worse... so there's no equivalence in the circumstances at all - AT ALL. If the African American community decided to embrace the flag, then there'd be an equivalence.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I think that now is a good time to remind you all of the differences in power (which include and are related to-but cannot be reduced to-economic matters) between "white" and "not white."

No one ever asked, "Is America ready for a white President?" No one ever speaks of "the white community." When a white man commits a crime or falls into chronic unemployment (or both), no one ever wonders what is going on in the white culture that is causing the breakdown in white cultural values. No one ever says these things, for exactly the reasons that Xahar articulated up-thread.

Being white doesn't define who white people are, for the most part (except perhaps in the cases where it gives a positive advantage). The same cannot be said for non-whites. Race is a big social class/status marker-perhaps the defining one in the history, past and present, of the United States.  

[bedstuy]

Just to reiterate my original point, the n-word is a very loaded, problematic word, whomever uses it, but especially when white Americans use it. 

Within the black community, the n-word is not simply an empowering word.  People use the n-word to refer to a certain type of black person, someone who conforms to black stereotypes or has less status. 

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People also use the n-word just to refer to anything as filler.  I've heard black people refer to a white person using the n-word  I've heard black people refer to objects as the n-word.  I don't see some project of togetherness there, it's just a fun word to say so people use it without thinking.  My point is that there's something still very raw and demeaning towards black people there in the word.  Everyone should think before they use it and consider whether they really should.

It's the same basic equation with the word retarded.  I used to say that word until I thought about how it made people feel and the connotations associated with it.  It was fun to use because it was a transgressive swear word, but I stopped.  I'm not the best person to start a similar dialog for black people, but I think it's something everyone ought to consider.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I am going to boil down my argument to a simple sentence and then drop this: you shouldn't dismiss black cultural expression because of the n-word, you should try and understand it.

I can't really disagree with that in principle, even if I question some of the results.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

[Cassius]

This is just my 50 pence, but how accepted is the use of the term 'n' amongst black people. I mea, I understand that a few rapsters and other celebrities use it, but does the average black person really use the term?

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

2. Reagan made his statement about states' rights in 1980.  While it was certainly in an unfortunate location (Philadelphia, MS), it doesn't mean that he was trying to pander to racism.

Let imagine that a German politician in a German city with a old KZ camp near, began to use "innocent" buzz words, which the Nazi had used about Jews. Do you think you would be as forgiving in that case.

Reagan was not a idiot and the murders or Segregation was not far into the past.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I don't like it either. Gets under my skin. These liberals better simmer down the agenda or else there will be problems someday.

[7,052,770]

I don't like it either. Gets under my skin. These liberals better simmer down the agenda or else there will be problems someday.

Beat me to it, although I don't think he was serious.

[morgieb]

2. Reagan made his statement about states' rights in 1980.  While it was certainly in an unfortunate location (Philadelphia, MS), it doesn't mean that he was trying to pander to racism.

Let imagine that a German politician in a German city with a old KZ camp near, began to use "innocent" buzz words, which the Nazi had used about Jews. Do you think you would be as forgiving in that case.

Reagan was not a idiot and the murders or Segregation was not far into the past.

Wow. Surely you mean the Simple Truths Mine or something?

[free my dawg]

Why is this troll a mod while BRTD is not?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

People can be weird about these things.  There are also Christians only, Jews only, and Muslims only dating sites.  Presumably the Hindu all were married at age seven in marriages that were arranged when they were infants, so that one may not exist.  Oops.  I stand corrected.  A google search turns up a large number of Hindu dating websites as well.

Anyway, there are some people who only want to make it with someone who has a particular characteristic.  As bedstuy said, such websites are really good things, not only because they help these people with their insular tendencies, but also because they save the rest of us from awkwardness and frustration.  Doncha hate it when a hot Libertarian chick won't have anything to do with you only because you're a Mao photo-carrying member of the Communist Party? I know I do.

To be fair, people whose core values are similar have less reason to divorce later.  Also, people lead busy lives, and you can't always count on meeting Mister Right at the synagogue or the Republican National Convention or a Ku Klux Klan rally or whatever, so if that's the only sort of person you want to hook up with, then the ethno-specific dating websites do serve a valid purpose. 

[Horus]

People can be weird about these things.  There are also Christians only, Jews only, and Muslims only dating sites.  Presumably the Hindu all were married at age seven in marriages that were arranged when they were infants, so that one may not exist.  Oops.  I stand corrected.  A google search turns up a large number of Hindu dating websites as well.

Anyway, there are some people who only want to make it with someone who has a particular characteristic.  As bedstuy said, such websites are really good things, not only because they help these people with their insular tendencies, but also because they save the rest of us from awkwardness and frustration.  Doncha hate it when a hot Libertarian chick won't have anything to do with you only because you're a Mao photo-carrying member of the Communist Party? I know I do.

To be fair, people whose core values are similar have less reason to divorce later.  Also, people lead busy lives, and you can't always count on meeting Mister Right at the synagogue or the Republican National Convention or a Ku Klux Klan rally or whatever, so if that's the only sort of person you want to hook up with, then the ethno-specific dating websites do serve a valid purpose. 

What's wrong with this? Seems like a good quality, true and funny post to me.

[NewYorkExpress]

People can be weird about these things.  There are also Christians only, Jews only, and Muslims only dating sites.  Presumably the Hindu all were married at age seven in marriages that were arranged when they were infants, so that one may not exist.  Oops.  I stand corrected.  A google search turns up a large number of Hindu dating websites as well.

Anyway, there are some people who only want to make it with someone who has a particular characteristic.  As bedstuy said, such websites are really good things, not only because they help these people with their insular tendencies, but also because they save the rest of us from awkwardness and frustration.  Doncha hate it when a hot Libertarian chick won't have anything to do with you only because you're a Mao photo-carrying member of the Communist Party? I know I do.

To be fair, people whose core values are similar have less reason to divorce later.  Also, people lead busy lives, and you can't always count on meeting Mister Right at the synagogue or the Republican National Convention or a Ku Klux Klan rally or whatever, so if that's the only sort of person you want to hook up with, then the ethno-specific dating websites do serve a valid purpose. 

What's wrong with this? Seems like a good quality, true and funny post to me.

Angus has apparently been stood up at the altar one too many times...

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

People can be weird about these things.  There are also Christians only, Jews only, and Muslims only dating sites.  Presumably the Hindu all were married at age seven in marriages that were arranged when they were infants, so that one may not exist.  Oops.  I stand corrected.  A google search turns up a large number of Hindu dating websites as well.

Anyway, there are some people who only want to make it with someone who has a particular characteristic.  As bedstuy said, such websites are really good things, not only because they help these people with their insular tendencies, but also because they save the rest of us from awkwardness and frustration.  Doncha hate it when a hot Libertarian chick won't have anything to do with you only because you're a Mao photo-carrying member of the Communist Party? I know I do.

To be fair, people whose core values are similar have less reason to divorce later.  Also, people lead busy lives, and you can't always count on meeting Mister Right at the synagogue or the Republican National Convention or a Ku Klux Klan rally or whatever, so if that's the only sort of person you want to hook up with, then the ethno-specific dating websites do serve a valid purpose. 

What's wrong with this? Seems like a good quality, true and funny post to me.

Angus has apparently been stood up at the altar one too many times...

He has a wife and son...

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Context:

Glad we kicked him out. Good riddance.

[Paul Kemp]

I'm wondering what advantage people like to see in a country that would have multiple languages spoken and accepted in it.

Let's force everybody that crosses the border to abandon their cultures and languages completely so life is easier for us hard working Americans

...yes....sounds fine with me.