Goodwill is basically using slave labor
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  Goodwill is basically using slave labor
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« on: July 07, 2013, 03:08:51 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GznAli633yA#at=566

Saw this on Rock Center. Absolutely disgusting.
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TNF
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 03:10:14 PM »

This has been going on for quite some time.
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memphis
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 03:34:57 PM »

Still better than it used to be. They now have generic bays in strip malls. Back when I was a kid, their donation centers were unsightly aluminum trailers.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2013, 05:03:09 PM »

These workers should make at least the minimum wage... but if Goodwill is making their own sacrifice to employ disabled workers and otherwise wouldn't be able to, then I'd support government making up the wage difference... in order to keep Goodwill artificially cheap.

Keep in mind many of these workers also have SS disability, which is often taken into account with such employment relationships.  The point isn't to get them to support themselves... the point is to teach them work skills and give them something to do.

Disabled people don't just wanna sit around all day.  And if the only way we can offer them employment (which should be voluntary) is to cut deals with companies where government picks up some of the cost.. I'm okay with that.

In short:  the situation as is needs improvement.  But we shouldn't "fix" it by making Goodwill pay minimum wage and quit hiring disabled Americans.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 07:15:04 PM »

These workers should make at least the minimum wage... but if Goodwill is making their own sacrifice to employ disabled workers and otherwise wouldn't be able to, then I'd support government making up the wage difference... in order to keep Goodwill artificially cheap.

Keep in mind many of these workers also have SS disability, which is often taken into account with such employment relationships.  The point isn't to get them to support themselves... the point is to teach them work skills and give them something to do.

Disabled people don't just wanna sit around all day.  And if the only way we can offer them employment (which should be voluntary) is to cut deals with companies where government picks up some of the cost.. I'm okay with that.

In short:  the situation as is needs improvement.  But we shouldn't "fix" it by making Goodwill pay minimum wage and quit hiring disabled Americans.

If the government is making up the wage difference, expect the wages paid by the employers to be even less.

But as you pointed out, disabled people would likely be left with nothing to do without these opportunities. They aren't employable at the minimum wage. Demanding they be paid $7.25 an hour will yield the same result as demanding a high schooler in the inner city be paid $9 an hour - they'll simply have no job at all.

When I was in high school, I volunteered at an activities center for mentally handicapped adults. They could do a number of things, such as make arts and crafts that were sold to the general public to help pay the center's expenses, or they could make embossed napkins and invitations that people would order for events like weddings and parties which they were paid below minimum wage to do. I saw many of them doing this work and it was not "slave labor" by any means. Staff members would often come in to help because they tended to work fairly slowly. They were in an air-conditioned, well-lit room with windows, not some sweatshop. These people aren't that different from us in the sense that they want to feel useful and they feel proud and happy when they're given a task and accomplish it.
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opebo
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 08:05:02 PM »

Why on earth would we want to make them 'have something to do'?  My god, if I were given a generous dole (as we most certainly should give to the disabled), I wouldn't have any trouble filling each day with activities more salubrious than the humiliation of paid employment.

They should all be given a few hours of physical therapy and enjoyable 'classes' - like fingerpainting and whatnot - on the public dime rather than being sent to toil among dirty laundry.  Such jobs should be given to the ablebodied at unionized rates (and only with the implementation of a humane 20 hour work-week).
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snowguy716
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 04:19:26 PM »

Why on earth would we want to make them 'have something to do'?  My god, if I were given a generous dole (as we most certainly should give to the disabled), I wouldn't have any trouble filling each day with activities more salubrious than the humiliation of paid employment.

They should all be given a few hours of physical therapy and enjoyable 'classes' - like fingerpainting and whatnot - on the public dime rather than being sent to toil among dirty laundry.  Such jobs should be given to the ablebodied at unionized rates (and only with the implementation of a humane 20 hour work-week).
I live with a disabled person who is physically unable to work.  It drives her insane.

There's a fine line between empathy for the disabled and plain old patronizing condescension.

When I say "they don't want to sit around all day", I speak from personal experience with disabled people... not from the able bodied 'plenty to do' perspective.

These jobs are designed for disabled people... they have extra supervision and are generally menial, repetitive work for the mentally disabled... or work that is customized to deal with physical handicaps.

Like I said, they should be paid more.  But the government should pick up the cost.  My sister's fiance's brother has Down Syndrome and works at the "Occupational Development Center" which is for people with disabilities that contracts out to other companies for work.  For example, right now, they are producing parts for an ATV company.  The less handicapped workers are learning valuable skills in welding and other parts of the assembly process while also having their specific situations tailored to... something that wouldn't happen if they were just working for the ATV company itself.

The brother cannot do welding because it would present too much of a hazard to him... so his work is more menial.  But ask him once if he likes his job.  He loves it.  He loves every minute of it.  And the money he earns pretty much goes to video games and movies.  His father receives the disability money and cares for him even though he is 34 years old.

It's perhaps not ideal... but it's closer now than it ever has been before (just locking them up and letting them be bored all the time)
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opebo
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 05:21:00 AM »

Snowguy, I don't deny it is a good idea to give them something to do - but it shouldn't be toil for 'private', for-profit corporations.  It would be better to give them continuous programs of enjoyable activities provided by highly paid government employees.
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barfbag
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 12:14:10 AM »

Is this any  worse than taxing someone to give money to someone who doesn't want to work? I define that as slave labor for the tax payers.
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