Psalms
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 23, 2024, 03:19:50 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.)
  Psalms
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Psalms  (Read 1373 times)
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: June 12, 2013, 10:19:57 AM »

Anyway, here's the deal.  As a means of studying the Bible in more detail, I from time to time translate selected portions of it.  Partly its because I find that most translations tend to mute the impact of the original languages by muting the connections between concepts.

Take for example today's translation: Psalm 1.  The word I'm translating as 'tormentor' is usually translated as 'wicked' or 'ungodly'.  Yet the verb associated with it is used not only in the sense of doing evil, but in a broader sense of doing things to others that they do not like, even if those actions are not evil.  Hence by using 'tormentor' and 'torment'  one can better see the connections, especially in those verses where they are used together, thus instead of 'condemning the wicked' in several places, one gets 'tormenting the tormenters'.

Of course, since I'm translating a Psalm here, sometimes a strict translation according to sense isn't best.  If it were then in verse 2 below I would have used 'desire' instead of 'delight', but 'delight' enabled me to have a rhyme and this is supposed to be poetical.

Psalm 1

1 Serene is the one that
follows not the counsel of tormenters,
remains not in the way of the blameful,
and sits not in the seat of the doubters.

2 For instead the law of YHWH is his delight;
and on that law he meditates day and night.

3 He is a tree planted beside a stream of water,
which bears fruit in his season,
whose leaves never wither.
Whatsoever he does shall increase on.

4 Not so the tormentors, for they are chaff driven on the wind.
5 Therefore torment withstands not judgment;
the blameful are not in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For YHWH keeps watch on the way of the righteous,
while the way of the tormentors leads to being lost.

Anyway, questions and comments welcome. (Otherwise, why I am posting this here?)
Logged
Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,403


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 10:44:10 AM »

If I were doing this, I would have it either rhyme more consistently (like the Bay Psalm Book, an awful Psalter from a formal translator's perspective but a great one for the kind of liturgy for which it was used because it's in rhyming ballad measure) or use a poetic register but without particular regard for rhyme, but that's just me and other than that I think you did a great job with this.
Logged
Insula Dei
belgiansocialist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,326
Belgium


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 12:34:58 PM »

'And sits not in the seats of the doubters' in my Bible (the Wilibrord translation, though this will mean little to you) is rendered something more akin to 'who will not sit among those who mock'. So I started looking around online and the NBV (whihc is pretty much the standard Dutch translation, now) has something quite similar to this.

I then went looking for the old Staten translation, which had 'noch sitt in het gestoelte der spotteren', which very roughly translates to: 'and does not sit in the seat of the mockers' (I feel free to introduce 'mocker into English if it isn't already, as 'spotteren' isn't exaclty standard Dutch either.)

The King James Bible has, you will be pleased to know, has 'nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful'.

So basically what I now find myself wondering is:

1)Mocking or doubting?
2)Sitting among? Or is 'to sit in the seat of' here roughly eequivalent to 'to be'?

At any rate, I've created an amusing 10 minutes out of this. So thanks, I guess.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 01:13:09 PM »

Mocking, scorning, and doubting fit the sense, but 'doubters' is a better rhyme to 'tormenters' hence I chose to use it.  'Sits not in the seat' is a fairly literal translation of the Hebrew and gave each of the three lines giving an attribute of one who is serene ten syllables.

BTW 'mocker' is perfectly good English, but googling 'spotteren' turned up instances of its use mainly in Norwegian in this sense rather than Dutch.  Looking at the etymology of mocker it looks English decided to adopt a French word when a perfectly serviceable Germanic one could have employed.  Still, I wonder if Shakespeare was aware of this distant connection between mock and spot when he wrote the sleepwalking scene in Macbeth.
Logged
Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
The Obamanation
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,853
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 02:48:21 PM »

Good luck with 119.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 04:20:52 PM »
« Edited: June 12, 2013, 05:14:09 PM by त्रू फ़ॅदृऌिस्ट (Тру Фeдeрaлист) »


Well, I hadn't planned on taking requests, but okay.  Masoretic 119 or Septuagint 119?  The numbering isn't the same in the two traditions and both number schemes have their deficiencies.

(Edit: I suspect you mean Masoretic 119.  It's not only the longest psalm, but trying to duplicate its gimmick would be a real pain.  Psalm 119 (Psalm 118 in the Septuagint) is a poem of 22 verses of 8 lines each, where in each verse, the first word of each line begins with the same letter of the Hebrew alphabet.)
Logged
Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
The Obamanation
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,853
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2013, 06:07:20 PM »


Well, I hadn't planned on taking requests, but okay.  Masoretic 119 or Septuagint 119?  The numbering isn't the same in the two traditions and both number schemes have their deficiencies.

(Edit: I suspect you mean Masoretic 119.  It's not only the longest psalm, but trying to duplicate its gimmick would be a real pain.  Psalm 119 (Psalm 118 in the Septuagint) is a poem of 22 verses of 8 lines each, where in each verse, the first word of each line begins with the same letter of the Hebrew alphabet.)

I'm not telling you to do it, I'm just guessing that you'll do all of Psalms.
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2013, 09:55:34 PM »

This is interesting, good luck.  Are you gonna bother with 23, or leave it be?
Logged
DC Al Fine
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,085
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2013, 10:00:23 PM »

Gotta ask. Ernest, how did you pick up Hebrew?
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2013, 01:09:30 AM »

I'm using an online bible linked to Strong's concordance, so I don't actually know Hebrew in the sense of being fluent in it, but I know enough to do what I want concerning translations.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2013, 08:27:12 PM »

Well, here's the first verse of Psalm 119.  I decided it would be impossible to try to do it as an acrostic, and somewhat silly since the English alphabet has 26 letters instead of 22 as Hebrew does.  Still, I did follow a similar gimmick.  We'll see if I can hold to it, or if my serenity will end up being broken.

I tried to stick to 8 syllables for each half of the line, but the first two verses are 10 and 8 while verse 6 is 6 and 10 instead of 8 and 8.  (Of course, some would say that I gave the first verse 19 syllables instead of 18, but while I write YHWH out of uncertainty as to the original pronunciation, I think 'Yahweh' or equivalently 'the LORD'.

Psalm 119 א

1 Serene are those whose path is perfected,
        who walk in the law of YHWH.
2 Eased are those who keep his remembrances,
        who seek him with a well-filled heart.
3 Rather than commit injustice,
        in his pathways they choose to walk.
4 Ever thou has commanded us all:
        keep thy precepts with diligence.
5 Never I hope to neglect thy ways;
        I shall keep the tasks thou direct.
6 I cannot be ashamed
        when I have looked after thy commandments.
7 Thanks I shall give with steady heart
        once I have learned thy righteous judgments.
8 Yea, I will keep thine ordered tasks;
        do not forsake me utterly.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2013, 07:59:28 PM »

By being studious I finished the second stanza of Psalm 119 today.  I also did some changes to the first verse to improve its serenity.  I've adopted a consistent pattern of each line being a couplet of eight syllables in each half.  Of course there's the other structure I'm following, but I'll see if anyone can figure it out.  If no one does, I'll point it out when I'm done, or if I come across a verse I'm unable to impose my desired structure upon.

Psalm 119, stanzas א and ב

א Aleph
1 Serene are those of perfect path,
        who walk in the law of YHWH.
2 Eased are those remembrance keepers,
        who seek him with a well-filled heart.
3 Rather than commit injustice,
        in his pathways they choose to walk.
4 Ever thou has commanded us all:
       “keep thy precepts with diligence.”
5 Never I hope to neglect thy ways;
        I shall keep the tasks thou direct.
6 Impossible shall be my shame
        when I have kept thine ordered tasks.
7 Thanks I shall give with steady heart
        once I have learned thy just judgments.
8 Yea, I will keep thine ordered tasks;
        do not forsake me utterly.

ב Beth
 9 So how shall a youth cleanse his way?
        By observing thy pronouncements!
10 Thru all my heart have I sought thee;
        may I stray not from thy commands.
11 Upon my heart I stored thy word,
        that I receive not blame from thee.
12 Divinity is thine O Yhwh;
        instruct me in thine ordered tasks.
13 I have iterated with my lips
        all of the judgments from thy mouth
14 Of the path thy testimonies show
        I rejoice in its great value.
15 Unto thy precepts I shall muse
        and I shall observe thy pathways.
16 Solely on thy statutes I’ll gaze
        and ne’er forget thy pronouncements.
Logged
Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
The Obamanation
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,853
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2013, 01:19:22 PM »

I take it you decided to challenge yourself?
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2013, 01:53:39 PM »


Partly, but also I find most translations tend to avoid idiomatic language in the Hebrew that isn't present in English in favor of a direct translation.  However, doing that one tends to miss the connections with other words and phrases elsewhere that the idiom echoes.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 04:53:42 PM »

I hope to get back to more of Psalm 119.  I got distracted and haven't yet given up on the scheme I had planned for that, but I haven't had time to work on it either.  However, back in my daily reflections series of posts, I decided that of the readings in the Revised Common Lectionary for 24 January 2014 (Friday before the Third Sunday after Epiphany), I would choose to reflect on Psalm 27:1-6 by translating it.

Psalm 27:1-6 My own translation

I'd hoped to do the whole psalm, but I don't have time to finish the translation today.  The following is essentially free verse, with the restriction of twelve beats per line. It's not quite blank verse in that I don't attempt to have any consistent metrical scheme between the lines.

                1 YHWH: my light and salvation; whom shall I fear?
YHWH: the fortress of my life; whom shall I dread?

2 When pummelers approached me to devour my flesh
my opponents and enemies stumbled and fell.

3 Should a host encampa near me, my heart shall not fear;
should battle rise against me, even then I shall trust.

4 Only this I ask of YHWH that I require:
that I dwell in YHWH’s house all my days of life—
seeing YHWH’s sweetness, meditating in his shrine.

5 He shall hide me in his den in time of evil;
he shall stash me in his tent, placing me on a rock;
6 He shall lift my head above my foes around me.

Hence I shall offer in his tent joyful gifts;
I shall sing and play instruments unto YHWH.
               

a The Hebrew words for ‘host’ and ‘to encamp’ are related and rhyme. Unfortunately I have been unable to preserve either feature in this translation.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2017, 11:13:23 PM »

My Bible study group will be taking up the Psalms, and this has inspired me to return to this.  Here's a translation I just completed of Psalm 2.  I went for a basic eight syllables per line, but no other metrical requirements.  I'm not happy with forcing specific syllabification in verse 11 (especially using three syllables for trembling) but I can't see a way around it.

As per my usual translation rule, feel free to substitute either "Yahweh" or "the LORD" for "YHWH".  Also, I try to keep the original idiom as intact as possible, since that's why I bother doing my own translations.

Psalm 2

1 For what cause do the nations rage
and the peoples utter nonsense?
2 Stand do the kings of the earth
and the rulers form a union
Speaking opposed unto YHWH,
and thus also his anointed,
3 “Let us break their bonds asunder,
and cast away their cords from us.”

4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
the Lord shall mock their babbled words.
5 Then shall he speak to them in huffs;
his hot anger shall dismay them.
6 “I have consecrated my king
upon Zion, my holy mount.”

7 I recite unto you the decree:
“YHWH said unto me, ‘My Son,
this day I have begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee.
Thou shalt inherit the nations
and possess the ends of the earth.
9 Thou shalt strike as a rod of iron
does earthenware, shattering them.’

10 So now ye kings, take up wisdom,
as ordered judges of the earth.
11 Work for YHWH with rev-er-ence,
and celebrate with trem-bl-ing.
12 Kiss purely, lest he be angry,
and ye perish from his manner
when his wrath burns but a little.
Blest be all who refuge in him.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.055 seconds with 12 queries.