5th Pacific Legislation Introduction and Discussion Thread

[PJ]

Btw I don't know if NVGonzalez wants the position, but I nominate him if he does.

[Хahar 🤔]

If you are confused, feel free to refer to the rules of the Council.

[NVGonzalez]

Despite that I was not planning to be speaker this session, I will do it if I must.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

So...

[Adam Griffin]

lol

[Хahar 🤔]

It's nice to see the new legislators getting to work.

[PJ]

Are we gonna vote on speaker now?

[Хahar 🤔]

If you check the rules, you'll find that we already have a speaker.

[Spamage]

It's nice to see the new legislators getting to work.

Why have you not opened the topic on PJ's piece of legislation yet? He already mentioned it to you.

[Хahar 🤔]

That would be my mistake. I misinterpreted his subsequent post saying to "disregard this".

[Sec. of State Superique]

It's nice to see the new legislators getting to work.

It's nice to see the old ones getting to work as well....

[PJ]

The New Protect Our Forests Act

Section 1: Deforestation restrictions

1. The logging of rainforest is illegal.

2. Landowners with other kinds of forest on their land must preserve 50% of it.

3. Introduced and invasive species of trees are exempt from this bill and the forest restoration act.

4. Logging of endangered species of trees is illegal.

5. The logging of invasive and introduced species of trees is encouraged.

6. Breaking section 1 will result in a fine of $10,000 per tree.

Section 2: Property distribution

1. Areas of forest that have been victim to violation of the New Protect Our Forests Act will become government property.

2. If less than 100 square acres, the land will be sold to a private individual or business for the current appraisal value and will be required to abide by this bill.

3. Corporations are not eligible to buy the aforementioned properties.

4. If more than 100 square acres, the land will be preserved, and remain property of the regional government. The land will not be developed upon.

[Spamage]

 We as a region are going to be the recipient of a government stimulus. There's many ways to spend it and one beneficial one, in my opinion, would be a high speed rail system. Unlike the East Coast and Midwest many cities in the Pacific are very far apart. Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake, San Francisco, Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Fe etc. are hours from one another. Creating a faster, more efficient mode of transportation in the form of a rail line would not only be better for the environment but it would help bring in revenue, allowing our economy to recover somewhat. Jobs would obviously be created through the process of creating the line as well as upkeep after completion. What do you guys think?

[Sec. of State Superique]

We as a region are going to be the recipient of a government stimulus. There's many ways to spend it and one beneficial one, in my opinion, would be a high speed rail system. Unlike the East Coast and Midwest many cities in the Pacific are very far apart. Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake, San Francisco, Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Fe etc. are hours from one another. Creating a faster, more efficient mode of transportation in the form of a rail line would not only be better for the environment but it would help bring in revenue, allowing our economy to recover somewhat. Jobs would obviously be created through the process of creating the line as well as upkeep after completion. What do you guys think?

[PJ]

We as a region are going to be the recipient of a government stimulus. There's many ways to spend it and one beneficial one, in my opinion, would be a high speed rail system. Unlike the East Coast and Midwest many cities in the Pacific are very far apart. Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake, San Francisco, Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Fe etc. are hours from one another. Creating a faster, more efficient mode of transportation in the form of a rail line would not only be better for the environment but it would help bring in revenue, allowing our economy to recover somewhat. Jobs would obviously be created through the process of creating the line as well as upkeep after completion. What do you guys think?

[NVGonzalez]

We as a region are going to be the recipient of a government stimulus. There's many ways to spend it and one beneficial one, in my opinion, would be a high speed rail system. Unlike the East Coast and Midwest many cities in the Pacific are very far apart. Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake, San Francisco, Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Fe etc. are hours from one another. Creating a faster, more efficient mode of transportation in the form of a rail line would not only be better for the environment but it would help bring in revenue, allowing our economy to recover somewhat. Jobs would obviously be created through the process of creating the line as well as upkeep after completion. What do you guys think?

This idea has been brought up a few times and there have been a few bills proposed to advance it. Sadly inactivity has killed them all good.

[President Tyrion]

We as a region are going to be the recipient of a government stimulus. There's many ways to spend it and one beneficial one, in my opinion, would be a high speed rail system. Unlike the East Coast and Midwest many cities in the Pacific are very far apart. Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake, San Francisco, Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Fe etc. are hours from one another. Creating a faster, more efficient mode of transportation in the form of a rail line would not only be better for the environment but it would help bring in revenue, allowing our economy to recover somewhat. Jobs would obviously be created through the process of creating the line as well as upkeep after completion. What do you guys think?

This idea has been brought up a few times and there have been a few bills proposed to advance it. Sadly inactivity has killed them all good.

May I draft such a bill?

[PJ]

We as a region are going to be the recipient of a government stimulus. There's many ways to spend it and one beneficial one, in my opinion, would be a high speed rail system. Unlike the East Coast and Midwest many cities in the Pacific are very far apart. Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake, San Francisco, Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Fe etc. are hours from one another. Creating a faster, more efficient mode of transportation in the form of a rail line would not only be better for the environment but it would help bring in revenue, allowing our economy to recover somewhat. Jobs would obviously be created through the process of creating the line as well as upkeep after completion. What do you guys think?

This idea has been brought up a few times and there have been a few bills proposed to advance it. Sadly inactivity has killed them all good.

May I draft such a bill?

Of course!

[President Tyrion]

So I was researching the high speed rail bill, and I think the spending necessary would be excessive. I understand that we need anywhere from 10M to 86M per mile of high speed rail. Even the lowest estimate, for 4000 miles of track, would already eat up out allotted 40B.

Now, we could be pretty stingy with our track usage. It's about 1200 miles from San Diego to Seattle through LA, Oakland, and Portland. Then, it's 700 miles from LA to Salt Lake City through Las Vegas, and about 300 miles from Las Vegas to Phoenix. All in all, that's 2200 miles, or 22B at the cheapest.

I'm not sure we can afford this project.

[Spamage]

So I was researching the high speed rail bill, and I think the spending necessary would be excessive. I understand that we need anywhere from 10M to 86M per mile of high speed rail. Even the lowest estimate, for 4000 miles of track, would already eat up out allotted 40B.

Now, we could be pretty stingy with our track usage. It's about 1200 miles from San Diego to Seattle through LA, Oakland, and Portland. Then, it's 700 miles from LA to Salt Lake City through Las Vegas, and about 300 miles from Las Vegas to Phoenix. All in all, that's 2200 miles, or 22B at the cheapest.

I'm not sure we can afford this project.

You might want to get the GM's estimations first.

If it is over the amount, my understanding is that we'd incorporate the remainder by using regional funds. There are many long term and short term benefits from this project.

[President Tyrion]

So I was researching the high speed rail bill, and I think the spending necessary would be excessive. I understand that we need anywhere from 10M to 86M per mile of high speed rail. Even the lowest estimate, for 4000 miles of track, would already eat up out allotted 40B.

Now, we could be pretty stingy with our track usage. It's about 1200 miles from San Diego to Seattle through LA, Oakland, and Portland. Then, it's 700 miles from LA to Salt Lake City through Las Vegas, and about 300 miles from Las Vegas to Phoenix. All in all, that's 2200 miles, or 22B at the cheapest.

I'm not sure we can afford this project.

You might want to get the GM's estimations first.

If it is over the amount, my understanding is that we'd incorporate the remainder by using regional funds. There are many long term and short term benefits from this project.

I don't doubt it. We should also consider the alternatives, including beefing up education and perhaps making significant investments in our university system, but that all depends on the numbers.

[President Tyrion]

GM Griffin offered up the numbers, and they're not pretty.

Hey Adam,

Can I get an estimate on cost/mile of high speed railway? We're estimating a minimum of 2200 miles.

There is already a HSR route in between L.A. and San Francisco; please let me know if you wish to include a second line (this quote excludes it):

1821 miles @ $38.24 million/mile:
120 mph: $69.635 B

1821 miles @ $70.05 million/mile:
220 mph: $127.75 B

I don't think this project is tenable. A minimum of 30 B will have to come out of the region's pocket.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Maybe we should just build one from Seattle to Portland then, eh? 

[Spamage]

Maybe we should just build one from Seattle to Portland then, eh? 

What if we expanded the LA-SF line to include Portland and Seattle?

[President Tyrion]

How would one even build a train line going north from SF? It would have to go east of the bay, because it's not really a good idea to build a rail bridge right next to the Golden Gate Bridge.

Let's assume that you could branch the rail lines in San Jose somewhere, and send northbound trains through the East Bay and SF bound trains to SF, of course.

Rail from SJ->Portland->Seattle
838 miles @ $38.24 million per mile
$32,045,120,000

I'm sure with other costs, like station retrofitting and the like, we would use our entire $40 billion, but not much more. This seems like a fairly good solution if this is how you want to use stimulus funds.