There are now four regions

[Grumpier Than Thou]

This is completely unconstitutional, and could lead to an all out civil war, we must prevent that from happening. If we must reorganize and take a census to reorganize the regions, but this  current course of action is only going to lead to fighting.

Easy there Ron Paul there isn't gonna be a civil war

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Why do all these folks regard the term "Civil War" with a hint of fear or dislike? In American history, ours did wonders for the nation.

[CatoMinor]

After some thought on the matter, I have come to the conclusion that the IDS has no authority to do what it is doing in the pacific, and to occupy it with our Imperial Guard seems dangerously close to treason. While I firmly believe that there are places that rightfully belong to the IDS yet are in other regions, none of them are in the former Pacific. The only legal action the IDS can take is to volunteer units to work with the feds in keeping the peace, but until then we are over stepping our jurisdiction.

That being said it is my hope that this issue may be solved in the IDS Legislature instead at the federal level. The IDS's heart is in the right place here but who are we to force a gov't on a region that has voted (for the time being) to abolish it?

[Enderman]

Okay, good to know... :s well welcome Pacific people!!!

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

There are five regions.  The fact that several of the folks behind Rimjob voted for Senator for a region they claim doesn't exist speaks volumes.

[Хahar 🤔]

There are five regions.  The fact that several of the folks behind Rimjob voted for Senator for a region they claim doesn't exist speaks volumes.

Yes, it speaks volumes as to our understanding of the legislation that was passed. The geographical area that was formerly governed by the government of the Pacific Region still exists, and it still elects a Senator in accordance with the Constitution. It merely has no regional government. The difficulty that people seem to have comprehending this is baffling.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

There are five regions.  The fact that several of the folks behind Rimjob voted for Senator for a region they claim doesn't exist speaks volumes.

Yes, it speaks volumes as to our understanding of the legislation that was passed. The geographical area that was formerly governed by the government of the Pacific Region still exists, and it still elects a Senator in accordance with the Constitution. It merely has no regional government. The difficulty that people seem to have comprehending this is baffling.

It is administered by the IDS government.

[Dereich]

There are five regions.  The fact that several of the folks behind Rimjob voted for Senator for a region they claim doesn't exist speaks volumes.

Yes, it speaks volumes as to our understanding of the legislation that was passed. The geographical area that was formerly governed by the government of the Pacific Region still exists, and it still elects a Senator in accordance with the Constitution. It merely has no regional government. The difficulty that people seem to have comprehending this is baffling.

It is administered by the IDS government.

Exactly so. While for federal purposes there are still 5 regions, there are two that are administered by the IDS. I admit the topic is a bit showy and not wholly representative of the real situation, but that's an Atlas tradition.

On another note, as AdamGriffin so intelligently pointed out elsewhere, even if clause 1 (the part focusing on the militia) has run into a bit of trouble with the Emperor's statement clause 2 of the passed bill (the "annexation" part) still applies.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As far as I am aware, the IDS can't annex the Pacific without its consent per the constitution, if they are still a REgion lacking a gov't that is. If they aren't a region and are unnorganized terrortories, then it is likewise unconstitutional because the power to dispense with territory rests with the Atlasian Senate.

[Wisconsin+17]

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No one forced the Pacific to shut down their legislature. The Pacific has spoken. They do not want to govern themselves. So, they shall become an integral part of our glorious IDS.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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No one forced the Pacific to shut down their legislature. The Pacific has spoken. They do not want to govern themselves. So, they shall become an integral part of our glorious IDS.

None of which serves as refutation of my points legally speaking. No express consent has been given, therefore the Pacific cannot be annexed.

As for the "Pacific having spoken", I never thought there would come a time when the hijacking of a region by an anti-regionalist cabal, would be considered to be in the best interest of the IDS to be recognized, embraced and taken advantage of for self-centered gain.

[Wisconsin+17]

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What governing body exists to provide their consent? They voluntarily shut down their own legislature.

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In terms of providing stable and effective governance to the region, I think we can provide that to the Pacific. The South has been doing an excellent job. So why not have the South run the Pacific?  I believe, quite strongly, that the pacific will have better governance, stronger representation and more effective leadership as a part of the IDS then they have at present.

Why don't we do a plebescite among former regional members of the Pacific?

If they do not want to join the IDS then the people would have spoken. If they do, then we can proceed and integrate the Pacific into the IDS.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If you need A to give you B in order to do C and A no longer exists, then obviously you can't be given B and by extension can't do C.

Who shall administer the plebiciste and under whose authority?

[Wisconsin+17]

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But if A doesn't exist, then the region doesn't exist at all. That's the problem. Can a region exist without a legislature per the constitution? I think the people of the Pacific have a right and an obligation to have representation of some sort. Depriving the people of the Pacific of their rightful representation is wrong. This needs to be corrected.

There are multiple options to fix this. One - is to re-establish the legislature. Another is for the region to join the IDS whereupon the people of the Pacific would join with the IDS and regain their rightful representation through the IDS legislature.

As for who would administer it, not my call. I'm just a plain ol' prole, NCYankee. That's your job to hash out, not mine. I am sure that the IDS would be more than willing to administer such a plebescite in a free and fair manner. 

Anyways, I've said my piece. I support annexation because the Pacific needs to have some representation, and I believe the South as an active region can provide said representation.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Not necessarily. The peopel who wrote this claim it to be a region without a gov't in most instances, while some label them unorganized territories (confusion brought on by the name), from a my interpretation the former is most likely the correct assesment. The Court will provide clarity on this matter and whether that passes legal muster, but for right now the document itself delegates the authority to legislate to the Senate, an authority we are going to reject one way or the other. AT the very least an initiative process will be created if this situation is maintained through which the Pacific's residents will be able to retain the ability to legislate on their own behalf.

[Wisconsin+17]

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Perhaps the Senate should consult the people they represent. Public opinion seems firmly against any attempt to re-establish the legislature of the Pacific.

[Dereich]

If you need A to give you B in order to do C and A no longer exists, then obviously you can't be given B and by extension can't do C.

Who shall administer the plebiciste and under whose authority?

Organizing a plebiscite would actually be right up our alley on this. What I've argued elsewhere that we've done here is create "2 regions, 1 government", with the Pacific still existing on paper and having Federal representation but in regional issues being represented by the IDS. As for authority, I'd say that our control of the region makes us the prime authority to handle regional affairs like this.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Perhaps the Senate should consult the people they represent. Public opinion seems firmly against any attempt to re-establish the legislature of the Pacific.

We aren't going to recreate anything. We are going to preserve the integrity of the Senate's legislative responsibilities, and then requires us to reject that of the Pacific. If this Constitution remains in force, we shall delegate the legislative authority of the Region to an initiative process. IF not, then we shall see whether the Courts strike it down in part or in full.

If you need A to give you B in order to do C and A no longer exists, then obviously you can't be given B and by extension can't do C.

Who shall administer the plebiciste and under whose authority?

Organizing a plebiscite would actually be right up our alley on this. What I've argued elsewhere that we've done here is create "2 regions, 1 government", with the Pacific still existing on paper and having Federal representation but in regional issues being represented by the IDS. As for authority, I'd say that our control of the region makes us the prime authority to handle regional affairs like this.

There is absolutely, positively, 100% no legal authority behind any action taken by the IDS with regards to the Pacific save for possibly supporting the force Marokai is sending to keep the peace. Anything else wil lbe assuredly struck down by the courts. There is no way to involve the IDS legally either without the consent of the Pacifc's legislature, which no longer exists, or some vote of its people (of which there is no legal basis for). Therefore, there is nothing left for the IDS or any other region to do in this matter until some process is established whereby the people of the Pacific can express their desire one way or the other. If they elect to be annexed, then we can talk IDS involvement. As for the establishment of that process, that is up to the courts to determine what is legal and for the Senate operating withing the legal authority we presently have, to then determine.

There is urgency here to be sure, however there is nothing that any region do to speed this process up, that won't come at the expense of imposing somehing of equal or even less legality then the present final constitution on the people of the Pacific, in the process.

[PJ]

Despite the supporter's of this believe, there are still people living in the pacific. I'm absolutely opposed to this.

[minionofmidas]

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What governing body exists to provide their consent?

None, therefore you cannot annex it. This should be self-evident to any and all sentient beings, no?

[Spamage]

Despite the supporter's of this believe, there are still people living in the pacific. I'm absolutely opposed to this.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No.  There are not 4 regions.  Any changes to the Wiki should be treated as vandalism of the Wiki and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

It is quite correct that pending our decision about the constitutionality of the original 'act' - which is claimed to have decommissioned the Pacific), there is no reason to assume that there are in any legal sense four regions.

However, in 'fact' given the 'actions on the ground' (the aforementioned 'final constitution' and the vote for intervention by the IDS legislature) is that the South is occupying what was, and may still be the Pacific.

So, there may be 4 or 5 regions - that depends on us.  But the fact of the occupation is undeniable, at least by my understanding of how Atlasian reality works.  

But occupation does not mean that there are now 4 regions.

[opebo]

But occupation does not mean that there are now 4 regions.

I see, thank you.

[Wisconsin+17]

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Then it will be up to the people of the pacific to decide.

[PJ]

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Then it will be up to the people of the pacific to decide.

THE PACIFIC SAYS NO