SCOTUS punts on affirmative action

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Sends the case back to the 5th Circuit.
http://projects.nytimes.com/live-dashboard/2013-06-supreme-court-decisions

[muon2]

They make affirmative action more difficult by requiring the 5th Circuit to apply strict scrutiny to any admissions programs. The school would have to show that no race-neutral criteria could achieve the diversity needed to provide educational benefits.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

As a minority who will be applying to colleges this fall, this is a relief.

[Link]

As a minority who will be applying to colleges this fall, this is a relief.

No decent college is going to allow itself to become 100% lily white just to appease some lunatic right wingers.  Professional schools are another story because they have small class sizes and few minorities to begin with even with big evil affirmative action programs.

It's all just a moronic game.  It's pathetic to watch a white person who can't get their act together blame black people.

[DC Al Fine]

As a minority who will be applying to colleges this fall, this is a relief.

No decent college is going to allow itself to become 100% lily white just to appease some lunatic right wingers.  Professional schools are another story because they have small class sizes and few minorities to begin with even with big evil affirmative action programs.

It's all just a moronic game.  It's pathetic to watch a white person who can't get their act together blame black people.

East Asians get screwed by these programs even more than whites do. The very notion of "Can't get his act together" is itself ridiculous, since the minority that beat the white person out under such a program has even worse test scores typically. Can they not get their acts together too?

[HansOslo]

I have a question about affirmative action. Is it based solely on factors like race and gender, or does it also take class into account?

[DC Al Fine]

I have a question about affirmative action. Is it based solely on factors like race and gender, or does it also take class into account?

Typically it's solely on race or gender, but there are cases of income being used as a metric.

[TNF]

I have a question about affirmative action. Is it based solely on factors like race and gender, or does it also take class into account?

Almost exclusively based on race and gender. The ruling class will accept minorities and women of their own social class (which is who affirmative action actually benefits, the well to do minorities and well to do women, not the vast majority of minorities or women, who continue to suffer egregious economic exploitation and denial of access to a decent education), but not for a minute will it accept those of the lower social classes into their institutions. Plus, those folks benefit far more from legacy preferences that keep them in college and get them in college in spite of lackluster academic ability (see: Bush the Younger)

[Link]

As a minority who will be applying to colleges this fall, this is a relief.

No decent college is going to allow itself to become 100% lily white just to appease some lunatic right wingers.  Professional schools are another story because they have small class sizes and few minorities to begin with even with big evil affirmative action programs.

It's all just a moronic game.  It's pathetic to watch a white person who can't get their act together blame black people.

East Asians get screwed by these programs even more than whites do. The very notion of "Can't get his act together" is itself ridiculous, since the minority that beat the white person out under such a program has even worse test scores typically. Can they not get their acts together too?

Reality check for the racists.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

I have a question about affirmative action. Is it based solely on factors like race and gender, or does it also take class into account?

Almost exclusively based on race and gender. The ruling class will accept minorities and women of their own social class (which is who affirmative action actually benefits, the well to do minorities and well to do women, not the vast majority of minorities or women, who continue to suffer egregious economic exploitation and denial of access to a decent education), but not for a minute will it accept those of the lower social classes into their institutions. Plus, those folks benefit far more from legacy preferences that keep them in college and get them in college in spite of lackluster academic ability (see: Bush the Younger)

This is exactly what is wrong with affirmative action. It lets people in who are of underrepresented ethnicities but are not actually disadvantaged. If affirmative action is to work under its intended auspices, then class and income must begin to be considered in affirmative action, otherwise the whole system does little to erase the difficulty in class movement, which is exactly what the system should be working to abolish.

[jaichind]

East Asians get screwed by these programs even more than whites do. The very notion of "Can't get his act together" is itself ridiculous, since the minority that beat the white person out under such a program has even worse test scores typically. Can they not get their acts together too?

Correct.  I managed to get into the college of my choice back in the early 1990s but it could have been a lot easier if it was not for affirmative action.  One way to see what an affirmative action free elite school would be like would be Stuyvesant High School where Asians make up 72% and Whites 24%.  Admissions is based solely on an entrance exam.  Of course the migration of wealthy Jews from NYC to suburbs like Scarsdale where I live or send their kids to private school made this number more skewed toward Asians than otherwise.  Of course recall that Stuyvesant High School was created by Jews in NYC to deal with the fact that Jews were discriminated against in elite private Schools in NYC (just like all Ivy League Universities) with Jewish quotas in the early 1900s.  The Jewish quota is gone but replaced with affirmative action which I view with equal disdain.  

Of course one thing that counts against Asians in Ivy League universities which has nothing to do with race is the policy of legacy where the children of people that attended said university is  given extra weight in admissions policies.  Since Asians only started to attend Ivy League universities in large numbers in the mid 1980s we will begin to see this factor matter less and less.  My child will hopefully benefit from this and not deal with affirmative action when he applies to college 15 years from now.

[Link]

East Asians get screwed by these programs even more than whites do.

Correct.  I managed to get into the college of my choice back in the early 1990s but it could have been a lot easier if it was not for affirmative action.

Incorrect.  Not sure where you went to school but it is common knowledge that whites did not "get screwed" by affirmative action.  Even if it's not common knowledge for you it was posted in the thread for you to read.

Also I would never attend a school that was 70% Asian or black.  The majority of the people you will encounter in upper level work places are white.  If anything I would attend a school who's largest racial group was white.  I would also want to attend a school that had a healthy dose of people from all ethnicities.  Going to college is not all about getting in.  It is about what you find when you get there.  I would not send my kid to some place that was 70% Asian 25% white and 5% other.  School is more than just memorizing facts and regurgitating them.

[Link]

Oh by the way fellas things worked out so well for women and WHITE women in particular due to affirmative action you aren't going to believe this...

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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20111646-503544.html

It's funny to be on basically an exclusively male forum and listen to losers b-tch about how hard their lives are because of blacks.

Give me a break.

[Blue3]

The Supreme Court didn't "punt," it just set a higher standard, as an uncontroversial and bipartisan compromise, and told the lower courts to now use this new standard when reviewing cases.

[DC Al Fine]

Oh by the way fellas things worked out so well for women and WHITE women in particular due to affirmative action you aren't going to believe this...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20111646-503544.html

It's funny to be on basically an exclusively male forum and listen to losers b-tch about how hard their lives are because of blacks.

Give me a break.

Hey, you brought race into this, not us.

[Link]

Oh by the way fellas things worked out so well for women and WHITE women in particular due to affirmative action you aren't going to believe this...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20111646-503544.html

It's funny to be on basically an exclusively male forum and listen to losers b-tch about how hard their lives are because of blacks.

Give me a break.

Hey, you brought race into this, not us.

The case was about race.  I think the words you are looking for are "I am sorry for my mischaracterization and hurtful false statements."

[jaichind]

Incorrect.  Not sure where you went to school but it is common knowledge that whites did not "get screwed" by affirmative action.  Even if it's not common knowledge for you it was posted in the thread for you to read.

Also I would never attend a school that was 70% Asian or black.  The majority of the people you will encounter in upper level work places are white.  If anything I would attend a school who's largest racial group was white.  I would also want to attend a school that had a healthy dose of people from all ethnicities.  Going to college is not all about getting in.  It is about what you find when you get there.  I would not send my kid to some place that was 70% Asian 25% white and 5% other.  School is more than just memorizing facts and regurgitating them.

Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree on what is "get screwed" mean.  For sure White benefited relative to Asians in admissions policies under affirmative action but "lost" relative to other minorities.  Not sure what that adds up to be but in my view I think Whites "got screwed." 

On a larger note, it seems that you seems to value diversity for where you or your children attend especially when you feel that "School is more than just memorizing facts and regurgitating them."  It seems to me that one should not make an assumption that any particular ethnic group are "good at memorizing facts and regurgitating them."  Also if it is about having your and your children experience at school being as rich and diverse as possible then why are you using race as a proxy for diversity.  it seems to me that school is about intellectual growth then intellectual diversity is what you might seek.  If so you should really promote the ideas that schools should seek not to attract a particular distribution of races but people with intellectual views out of the mainstream.  Perhaps there should be quotas to ensure a certain size of Communists, Anarchists, Socialists, Libertarians, Racial Supremacists of all types, and other people of non-mainstream thought.  While I cannot support quotas along these lines I see much greater value in them versus racial quotas which is pretty much predicated on the fact that your racial background would determine how you think and what your beliefs are.   

[Link]

Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree on what is "get screwed" mean.  For sure White benefited relative to Asians in admissions policies under affirmative action but "lost" relative to other minorities.

Did you read this?

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How is that "losing"?!

[Link]

It seems to me that one should not make an assumption that any particular ethnic group are "good at memorizing facts and regurgitating them."

I shouldn't.  And I haven't.

Perhaps there should be quotas to ensure a certain size of Communists, Anarchists, Socialists, Libertarians, Racial Supremacists of all types, and other people of non-mainstream thought.

Well you have the lingo down.

[Link]

While I cannot support quotas along these lines I see much greater value in them versus racial quotas which is pretty much predicated on the fact that your racial background would determine how you think and what your beliefs are.  

Wrong.  Where do you get these ideas?

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Now give us the other 3!

[jaichind]

Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree on what is "get screwed" mean.  For sure White benefited relative to Asians in admissions policies under affirmative action but "lost" relative to other minorities.

Did you read this?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How is that "losing"?!

I think we are talking about different things.  I am talking about Whites losing in college admissions.  I was using that standard since the thread was talking about affirmative action with respect to college admissions.  The research you cite about White women gaining relate to hiring for jobs and promotions.  I will accept that it is totally possible White women gains in the job market with affirmative action for work advancement.  Does not really distract from my opposition to affirmative action but I will agree that White women and in fact most likely Asians (depending on the field in question for both) might have benefited from affirmative action in the aggregate. 

[Holmes]

Why did the Supreme Court do this, and not issue its own decision on the case? What is there to gain from sending this back to the Fifth Circuit and having them issue another decision, only this time more "strict"?

[Cory]

It's all just a moronic game.  It's pathetic to watch a white person who can't get their act together blame black people.

As if the opposite doesn't happen all the time.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Why did the Supreme Court do this, and not issue its own decision on the case? What is there to gain from sending this back to the Fifth Circuit and having them issue another decision, only this time more "strict"?

It sounds as if the question that the Court found was needed to be answered was not explored by the Fifth Circuit.  The Supreme Court is for most cases an appellate court, not a court of primary jurisdiction.