Opinion of the hard lefty laborites who are upper middle class or better

[Torie]

As TNF said upper middle class libertarians who presume to give others lectures about "hard work" are infinitely worse then latte liberals. They are some of the most sheltered people you will ever meet.

Ayn Rand is just Marx for rich kids.

Sounds like Torie?

That's not nice. And I'm not a libertarian.

[Torie]

Grumps, I don't give lectures about the virtues of the Protestant work ethic (except in the context of trying to get educated so that one is not consigned to being the sort of person opebo claims almost everyone is, who is not of the oppressor class). Heck, these days the hardest things I work at are getting laid early and often, and buffing up.

And the poster above is absolutely correct (except the bit that one of the reasons that I am not a libertarian is because it does not maximize my net worth). I was and am the biggest welfare queen on this Forum, and it's a disgrace. My ilk needs to be taken off the welfare rolls - ASAP.

[Torie]

ChairmanSanchez, are you against having any social safety net or transfer payments whatsoever?

[Torie]

ChairmanSanchez, are you against having any social safety net or transfer payments whatsoever?

If the recipiants of such benefits pay taxes, I see no reason why we should not have such a system. I am not against Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. If I pay payroll taxes, I should receive social security. That seems like a basic business transaction between the people and the government.

Well the in one pocket and out the other thing sounds inefficient, but sometimes it is administratively necessary as a practical matter. SS may be a "business transaction," to wit forced savings, but that system itself involves transfer payments, with low income folks getting far more "return" for their forced savings than higher income people.

I assume you did not mean to imply that Medicare and Medicaid are "business transactions" did you? How are they anything other than transfer payments, particularly medicaid? Anyway, if you favor transfer payments in these areas, then suddenly the grand unified theory of total self reliance kind of falls by the wayside does it not, and you then need to go through the heavy lifting of evaluating government transfer payment programs one by one, based on their individual merits do you not?

[Torie]

Are people on Medicaid exempt from the income tax? Yes, they don't pay any income tax because they don't make enough money. Even if they pay a tiny bit, that is that in one pocket and out the other issue that I mentioned above.


I also don't quite understand where you are bringing up total self reliance. While I worship the concept, it can only occur in an ideal world, and I don’t look down at the idea of government relief. What I fundamentally oppose is the concept that those with deeper pockets are somehow reliable for those who do not have deeper pockets, and that their wealth is undeserved.

That is a subjective values judgment, and that is fine, but I am not sure how it is relevant to public policy formulation (putting aside those on the Left who want to soak the rich out of spite and dislike, as opposed to figuring out how much revenue needs to be raised, and then who should be taxed to raise it, balancing off all the competing considerations, such as ability to pay, the impact on economic growth, and so forth).

Is the repertoire of your comments on this thread more about attitudes than actual public policy prescriptions?  Again, that is fine, but not very helpful in formulating public policy.