Opinion of the hard lefty laborites who are upper middle class or better

[freefair]

I'm probably one of them...

So, Jbrase, what's your opinion of antiracist whites, feminist men, and anti-homophobic heterosexuals?

You don't need to make life harder for all whites to reduce racism, for men to achieve gender equality, for straights for gays to achieve equality. You certainly don't need to kill anyone connected with them, which is what extreme leftists and unionists (ie Trots) seem to want.

[freefair]

I'm probably one of them...

So, Jbrase, what's your opinion of antiracist whites, feminist men, and anti-homophobic heterosexuals?

I am not saying they should have a certain ideology because of where they are in life, I just find it annoying sometimes when people talk about the poor and working class and have never lived among them. Someone's talk of socialism is a lot less convincing, to me personally, when the closest they've been to working in factory or on a farm was reading a book about the guilded age.

On a side note: I am not upper middle class, or suburban, or live in a basement, before anyone starts killing off strawmen.

Basically, this. If one wants to be taken seriously, they should all at least deliberately endeavor to give their own surplus money away to charity or to governments in times of low tax rates, and to spend a few months living alongside the mass of people on lower incomes.

[freefair]

It's not about how they were brought up, it's about what they choose to do with what they have earned/inherited. If they still choose to live like Richie McRich or Posho McToff, they're godawful hypocrites. If they give their huge surplus of money away, to charity, or control their own consumption or openly agree with raising their own tax band. Some avoid tax, and this is again deplorably hypocritical.

[freefair]

Completely illogical. Throw away their money to a cause they don't believe in (charity) and make themselves poor so they can suffer the same conditions they've been actively opposing?

Only one of those, to my mind, is hypocritical - arguing against raising their tax band/avoiding tax. Charity is a sop, whereas systematic re-distribution (the kind that high taxes can afford) is meaningful. Again, they don't have to impoverish themselves to 'prove' they want socialism - that's just disingenuous right-wing rhetoric to discredit them (and if they actually done all those things, they will just becomes as voiceless as the working-class they'll then join).

They don't have to give it all away- 10 to 20% would be fine- they'd still be well off. I'm not saying they should be poor.
I'm astonished those on the left place so little moral worth on  charity (material worth, ok)- believing the welfare state to be inherently more moral seems to be taking collectivism a little too seriously to be reasonable.

[freefair]

whilst legitimising their privilege

Not all wealth is privilege. A large minority of it is, certainly, but honestly earned wealth coming from productivity or inventiveness is deserved and in my view wholly legitimate.

[freefair]

I was actually going to post something in reply on "YDBT", but I didn't want to go off topic, though you you've mentioned it.
Obama didn't say nobody builds a business on their own, he said one can't build a business without "foundation" infrastructure society provides.
You both seem to be assuming a dogmatic anacho-capitalism on the part of others. Well, I'm nothing of the sort.  Even Elizabeth Warren says rich people should be able to keep a "Big Hunk" (stupid phrase i take to mean at least 50%) of what they earn.

[freefair]

I thought Marx for Rich Kids was Marx??
As Al said, businesspeople are rarely libertarian (apart from the Koch bros), as they love corporatist-protectionist-welfare.

[freefair]

At the core, I don't judge people on their backgrounds, but on their abilities and the content of their character, so I don't mind if those from moneyed backgrounds take a leftist view, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with it, but it does irritate me if they're hypocrites  in areas like conspicuous consumption, or claim to speak for working class people on issues where their views are different from the average proletarian. Fighting for workers rights is usually commendable- For all Psuedo Tories like me are supposed to hate the approve of them, as long as they're not overly petty, as they often were in the 1970s, or too partisan, they're free associations of people.
Regarding the recent thread of discussion, It's intresting to note many libertarians would repeal union restrictions as authoritarian or corporatist