What hath God wrought in North Carolina?

[Indy Texas]

It amazes me what has happened there over the past couple of years. The state that was always one of the quieter members of the Solid South back in the day, where none of the Deep South's ugly racial backlashes occurred, where the universities are known more for their academics than for their football like in SEC country, where banking and tobacco interests that were pro-business but also understood the importance of public investment in education and infrastructure worked with moderate Democrats and Republicans, that as recently as 2008 was seen as an emerging Southern beachhead for the Democrats, has very rapidly devolved into a fiefdom of the Tea Party and ALEC, with far-right legislation that grows crazier by the day.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/07/north-carolinas-anti-sharia-bill-now-also-anti-abortion/66812/

Will North Carolina return to its even-keeled temperament or is it becoming more like its neighbor to the south and less like its neighbor to the north?

[Ebowed]

I don't think what is happening there (and it is shocking) is an accurate depiction of the general sentiment of North Carolina, but it certainly demonstrates the potential for long-term damage thanks to the 2010 elections.

[Miles]

Well, the Republicans were shut out of state government for a century, and I suppose they're trying to overcompensate for now.

I don't think what is happening there (and it is shocking) is an accurate depiction of the general sentiment of North Carolina, but it certainly demonstrates the potential for long-term damage thanks to the 2010 elections.

Yep.

[krazen1211]

By God, you must mean the voters? I suspect they decided that the prior government was unacceptable and threw them out.

[Mr.Phips]

By God, you must mean the voters? I suspect they decided that the prior government was unacceptable and threw them out.

It was a one time temper tantrum by the voters there that just happened to happen at the perfect time for them.  The majority of voters in 2012 in NC actually voted for a Democratic legislature, but instead got a GOP super majority thanks to clever gerrymandering.

[krazen1211]

By God, you must mean the voters? I suspect they decided that the prior government was unacceptable and threw them out.

It was a one time temper tantrum by the voters there that just happened to happen at the perfect time for them.  The majority of voters in 2012 in NC actually voted for a Democratic legislature, but instead got a GOP super majority thanks to clever gerrymandering.

Nope. The GOP won a majority of the legislative vote and the relevant statewide offices.

The Republican party won 51% of the statewide vote for the Assembly and 53% of the Senate.

[Miles]

It was a one time temper tantrum by the voters there that just happened to happen at the perfect time for them.  The majority of voters in 2012 in NC actually voted for a Democratic legislature, but instead got a GOP super majority thanks to clever gerrymandering.

Check this out:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There were more unconstested R seats than D seats in 2012, so I suspect the Assembly vote is inflated a bit in favor of the Rs.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

By God, you must mean the voters? I suspect they decided that the prior government was unacceptable and threw them out.

It was a one time temper tantrum by the voters there that just happened to happen at the perfect time for them. 

I disagree completely.

This state was growing weary of Democratic domination at the state level, hence why in a horrible year for the GOP, McCrory came within a hair's breadth of taking the Governorship, even as Obama was taking the state for the first time on the Presidential level since 1976.

Lets not claim the Democrats were innocent victims of the wave here. They had gone through scandal after scandal dating back to 2004 and it seems none of them learned a damn thing as one after another got popped for ethics violations and so forth. They stood in the way of school choice, they maintained an outdated tax code and made it worse, let DOT get worse and worse after promising to fix it many times, Perdue promised to fix Mental Health and the did absolutely nothing except to lock the state into sweatheart land deal to the city of Raleigh for the Dorothea Dix property. They continued to pursue a failed incentives package and watched as the state's business climate got worse and worse just as the economy was going downhill and the state badly needed to diversify away from dying industries.

McCrory ran on bringing a fresh point of view and had a record of success to run on. That is why he won solidly in 2012 and why he would have won in 2008 were it not for the unexpected turnout (and the crappy operation on the GOP side in response) as well as some ridiculous last minutes ads from Perdue on immigration (which she then did the opposite of once in office) and other ridiculous crap to bulk up the McCain/Perdue vote in the rural areas.

I have not been a fan of everything that Tillis and Berger have done in Raleigh, but make no mistake the Democrats sank their own ship and earned their defeats in 2010 and 2012 in this state.

[ilikeverin]

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying this is state Democrats' fault.  Far from it!  It's true that the Presidential results have shown that the national Democratic brand is something that could actually be fairly successful in the state, but, well, if the state party sucks, it sucks, and I hope the losses they've been sustaining recently will put them on a better course.

[memphis]

It amazes me what has happened there over the past couple of years. The state that was always one of the quieter members of the Solid South back in the day, where none of the Deep South's ugly racial backlashes occurred

Jesse Helms says hello.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying this is state Democrats' fault.  Far from it!  It's true that the Presidential results have shown that the national Democratic brand is something that could actually be fairly successful in the state, but, well, if the state party sucks, it sucks, and I hope the losses they've been sustaining recently will put them on a better course.

The real shame was the loss of people like Shuler and to some extent Kissell in all of this. Without people like them a future Democratic House majority built entirely metropolitan liberals and Progressives scares the hell out of me.

[Mr.Phips]

By God, you must mean the voters? I suspect they decided that the prior government was unacceptable and threw them out.

It was a one time temper tantrum by the voters there that just happened to happen at the perfect time for them. 

I disagree completely.

This state was growing weary of Democratic domination at the state level, hence why in a horrible year for the GOP, McCrory came within a hair's breadth of taking the Governorship, even as Obama was taking the state for the first time on the Presidential level since 1976.

Lets not claim the Democrats were innocent victims of the wave here. They had gone through scandal after scandal dating back to 2004 and it seems none of them learned a damn thing as one after another got popped for ethics violations and so forth. They stood in the way of school choice, they maintained an outdated tax code and made it worse, let DOT get worse and worse after promising to fix it many times, Perdue promised to fix Mental Health and the did absolutely nothing except to lock the state into sweatheart land deal to the city of Raleigh for the Dorothea Dix property. They continued to pursue a failed incentives package and watched as the state's business climate got worse and worse just as the economy was going downhill and the state badly needed to diversify away from dying industries.

McCrory ran on bringing a fresh point of view and had a record of success to run on. That is why he won solidly in 2012 and why he would have won in 2008 were it not for the unexpected turnout (and the crappy operation on the GOP side in response) as well as some ridiculous last minutes ads from Perdue on immigration (which she then did the opposite of once in office) and other ridiculous crap to bulk up the McCain/Perdue vote in the rural areas.

I have not been a fan of everything that Tillis and Berger have done in Raleigh, but make no mistake the Democrats sank their own ship and earned their defeats in 2010 and 2012 in this state.

Had this been the case, Democrats would have lost a good amount of seats in the legislature in 2008.  McCord came so close because of his base in Charlotte allowed him to basically hold Perdue to a tie in heavily Democratic Mecklenberg county.

[Miles]

Had this been the case, Democrats would have lost a good amount of seats in the legislature in 2008.  McCord came so close because of his base in Charlotte allowed him to basically hold Perdue to a tie in heavily Democratic Mecklenberg county.

Also, FWIW, PPP showed Perdue actually leading some non-McCrory Republicans if she ran for reelection.

[Mr.Phips]

Had this been the case, Democrats would have lost a good amount of seats in the legislature in 2008.  McCord came so close because of his base in Charlotte allowed him to basically hold Perdue to a tie in heavily Democratic Mecklenberg county.

Also, FWIW, PPP showed Perdue actually leading some non-McCrory Republicans if she ran for reelection.

Exactly.  McCrory was simply the best candidate Republicans could get for any statewide office.  He has the ability to cut deeply into the Democratic vote in the Charlotte area, which is a huge ingredient in any Dem statewide victory in the state.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

By God, you must mean the voters? I suspect they decided that the prior government was unacceptable and threw them out.

It was a one time temper tantrum by the voters there that just happened to happen at the perfect time for them. 

I disagree completely.

This state was growing weary of Democratic domination at the state level, hence why in a horrible year for the GOP, McCrory came within a hair's breadth of taking the Governorship, even as Obama was taking the state for the first time on the Presidential level since 1976.

Lets not claim the Democrats were innocent victims of the wave here. They had gone through scandal after scandal dating back to 2004 and it seems none of them learned a damn thing as one after another got popped for ethics violations and so forth. They stood in the way of school choice, they maintained an outdated tax code and made it worse, let DOT get worse and worse after promising to fix it many times, Perdue promised to fix Mental Health and the did absolutely nothing except to lock the state into sweatheart land deal to the city of Raleigh for the Dorothea Dix property. They continued to pursue a failed incentives package and watched as the state's business climate got worse and worse just as the economy was going downhill and the state badly needed to diversify away from dying industries.

McCrory ran on bringing a fresh point of view and had a record of success to run on. That is why he won solidly in 2012 and why he would have won in 2008 were it not for the unexpected turnout (and the crappy operation on the GOP side in response) as well as some ridiculous last minutes ads from Perdue on immigration (which she then did the opposite of once in office) and other ridiculous crap to bulk up the McCain/Perdue vote in the rural areas.

I have not been a fan of everything that Tillis and Berger have done in Raleigh, but make no mistake the Democrats sank their own ship and earned their defeats in 2010 and 2012 in this state.

Had this been the case, Democrats would have lost a good amount of seats in the legislature in 2008.  McCord came so close because of his base in Charlotte allowed him to basically hold Perdue to a tie in heavily Democratic Mecklenberg county.

Which was more then compensated for by McCain/Perdue voters and it should be noted that McCain outran McCrory.

He was the best candidate the GOP could get to be sure, but that doesn't change the fact that there was a strong desire for a change in state government and McCrory tapped into that. Otherwise his quality as a candidate would have been no match for the Democrats in such a year as 2008 and it would not have been that close.

As for the state legislature, 2008, just like 2006 was a bad year for the GOP. The party's problems nationwide served as a shield for the Democrats in NC during both years, otherwise they would have lost some seats in both.

Had this been the case, Democrats would have lost a good amount of seats in the legislature in 2008.  McCord came so close because of his base in Charlotte allowed him to basically hold Perdue to a tie in heavily Democratic Mecklenberg county.

Also, FWIW, PPP showed Perdue actually leading some non-McCrory Republicans if she ran for reelection.

I would point out that the situation had changed because the GOP had taken the legislature by that point. I would also inquire as to when those polls were released exactly and point out that most of the other candidates who ran on the GOP side weren't serious condidates at all and were the thus the opposite of McCrory in terms of quality and would hardly serve as a indicator of generic Republican in this state.

[Sol]

It's probably more accurate to compare the recent wave of far-right legislation in NC to the Walker administration in Wisconsin than to anything in Mississippi.

[Miles]

It's probably more accurate to compare the recent wave of far-right legislation in NC to the Walker administration in Wisconsin than to anything in Mississippi.

Governor Perdue disagrees.

I still crack up every time I watch that lol

[krazen1211]

It's probably more accurate to compare the recent wave of far-right legislation in NC to the Walker administration in Wisconsin than to anything in Mississippi.

Governor Perdue disagrees.

I still crack up every time I watch that lol

Wisconsin passed a marriage amendment with a nearly identical share of the vote.

[Sol]

It's probably more accurate to compare the recent wave of far-right legislation in NC to the Walker administration in Wisconsin than to anything in Mississippi.

Governor Perdue disagrees.

I still crack up every time I watch that lol

I meant that NC's GOP wave legislation is best analyzed as a reactionary movement.
Wisconsin passed a marriage amendment with a nearly identical share of the vote.

[krazen1211]

It's probably more accurate to compare the recent wave of far-right legislation in NC to the Walker administration in Wisconsin than to anything in Mississippi.

Governor Perdue disagrees.

I still crack up every time I watch that lol

I meant that NC's GOP wave legislation is best analyzed as a reactionary movement.
Wisconsin passed a marriage amendment with a nearly identical share of the vote.

Sure, but  its perfectly bizarre for Perdue to loathe the democratic process and the laws of 3/4 of our states.


On second hand, its really not.

[krazen1211]

http://www.wral.com/nc-redistricting-maps-upheld-by-3-judge-panel/12636229/

A three-judge panel has upheld the boundaries for North Carolina's legislative and congressional seats that were drawn by Republicans in 2011.

The Superior Court judges ruled unanimously Monday in favor of the GOP legislative leaders whose chambers drew the maps by letting the boundaries stand. Democratic voters, civil rights groups and election advocates had sued over the lines, arguing they were racially biased.

[Miles]

http://www.wral.com/nc-redistricting-maps-upheld-by-3-judge-panel/12636229/

A three-judge panel has upheld the boundaries for North Carolina's legislative and congressional seats that were drawn by Republicans in 2011.

The Superior Court judges ruled unanimously Monday in favor of the GOP legislative leaders whose chambers drew the maps by letting the boundaries stand. Democratic voters, civil rights groups and election advocates had sued over the lines, arguing they were racially biased.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I wish he would just leave the "fair" part out.

[krazen1211]

Dr. Hofeller was instructed by the redistricting chairs, Senator Rucho and
Representative Lewis, to construct the 2011 Fourth Congressional District based upon the
same principles stated in Cromartie II and used to create the 1997, 2001, and 2011
versions of the Twelfth Congressional District

The 2011 Fourth Congressional District is similar in construction to the
2001 Thirteenth Congressional District and the version of the Thirteenth Congressional
District found in the 2011 Fair and Legal Congressional Plans. If the distance between
the two most distant points of each of these three versions of the Thirteenth District are
compared, the 2001 Thirteenth District has a span of 111 miles, the Fair & Legal Districts
has a span of 97 miles, and the enacted 2011 Thirteenth Congressional District has a span
of 88 miles. (Id. at p. 33; Defs. Trial Exs. 7, 9, 10) While the 2011 Fourth Congressional
District is partially located in a different region than the 2001 Thirteenth or the Fair and
Legal Thirteenth, all three districts contain significant portions of Wake County. All
three districts also use rural corridors to connect urban centers of population.

Like the 2011 Twelfth Congressional District, Dr. Hofeller constructed the
2011 Fourth Congressional District based upon whole VTDs in which President Obama
received the highest vote totals during the 2008 Presidential Election. The only
information on the computer screen used by Dr. Hofeller in selecting VTDs for inclusion
in the Fourth Congressional District was the percentage by which President Obama won
or lost in a particular VTD. There was no racial data on the screen used by Dr. Hofeller
to construct this district.




What a swell guy.

[Miles]

Dr. Hofeller was instructed by the redistricting chairs, Senator Rucho and
Representative Lewis, to construct the 2011 Fourth Congressional District based upon the
same principles stated in Cromartie II and used to create the 1997, 2001, and 2011
versions of the Twelfth Congressional District

Why? There was no need to duplicate the platform of CD12.

You also forgot to mention that Hofeller has worked for the RNC since the 1980's. So yeah, I guess to partisan hacks, he must be a swell guy.

[krazen1211]

Dr. Hofeller was instructed by the redistricting chairs, Senator Rucho and
Representative Lewis, to construct the 2011 Fourth Congressional District based upon the
same principles stated in Cromartie II and used to create the 1997, 2001, and 2011
versions of the Twelfth Congressional District

Why? There was no need to duplicate the platform of CD12.

You also forgot to mention that Hofeller has worked for the RNC since the 1980's. So yeah, I guess to partisan hacks, he must be a swell guy.

Based upon these findings of fact, the trial court concludes that the shape, location
and composition of the four non-VRA districts challenged by the Plaintiffs as racial
gerrymanders was dictated by a number of factors, which included a desire of the General
Assembly to avoid § 2 liability and to ensure preclearance under § 5 of the VRA, but also
included equally dominant legislative motivations to comply with the Whole County
Provision, to equalize population among the districts, to protect incumbents, and to
satisfy the General Assembly’s desire to enact redistricting plans that were more
competitive for Republican candidates than the plans used in past decades or any of the
alternative plans.

No N.C. Supreme Court or United States Supreme Court decision has ever found a
legislative or congressional redistricting plan unconstitutional because it deprived a group
of plaintiffs of political influence



Translation: STFU.