GOP Utah State Senator wants to END Compulsary Education.

[retromike22]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/07/16/4168396/ut-legislator-wants-to-end-compulsory.html

"The idea of forcing children to attend school is outdated and should be scrapped in favor of a system that encourages learning by choice," state Sen. Aaron Osmond said in calling for an end to compulsory education in Utah.

Poor children of America, who don't have the freedom to have no education.

[DC Al Fine]

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[barfbag]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/07/16/4168396/ut-legislator-wants-to-end-compulsory.html

"The idea of forcing children to attend school is outdated and should be scrapped in favor of a system that encourages learning by choice," state Sen. Aaron Osmond said in calling for an end to compulsory education in Utah.

Poor children of America, who don't have the freedom to have no education.

Freedom to have an education is a choice of words, but children should be required to attend school. We need school vouchers so parents can decide where they send their kids. Schools should only be regulated by state, county, and local levels as long as there's no segregation and a requirement to attend. We need to build more charter schools to cut down on the teacher to student ratio. Competitive pay for teachers is another route to take that should be decided on by states and localities. As for homeschooling, I don't think it's a great idea, but parents should be free to do so.

[Zioneer]

Aaron Osmond is a moron. Not only do Utahns not support ending compulsory education, they want to fund public education with more of their tax money (if not necessarily paying more in taxes), they have repeatedly shot down school vouchers, and plenty of them like teachers.

Aaron Osmond is further, a joke of a state senator that only got his seat because of his name and the Osmond family's known conservatism.

[Rooney]

This bill would not end education but it would combat the very awful idea that "everyone can learn in the same way." The outdated notion of school starting at 7:45 and ending eight hours later with bells dictating the day and a a lunch DOES NOT WORK FOR ALL STUDENTS. Some kids learn that way (most of the guys posting here fall in that category) but a vast number do not thrive in the compulsory education sphere. In fact lots of kids hate compulsory education and fight it on a daily basis. These are not bad kids of dumb kids, they are kids that need the freedom to seek new horizons of education. They are the rebels against an outdated factory system of education.

This bill aims to show parents that education is not a "freebie" or a daycare system but a choice for learning. It also aims to show students that they should choose education. Right now many kids do not give a fig about school because they know that they will always have school- it cannot be taken from them nor denied them. These type of kids do not try because they realize that compulsory education will push them up from grade to grade. This is nothing more than insanity.

While the proposed idea has some flaws I can see some good in the heart of it all. Giving students the choice of attending high school or a trade school is a good idea. The individuals who post on this forum would all choose to continue in academic studies because you are all quite intelligent. Those students who are not like those on Atlas Forum could choose to go to work, prepare for the military or learn a necessary trade. Some may well choose to drop out all together but that happens under the compulsory program anyway. Thus students who cannot or will not learn under the compulsory education model will be given a chance to learn in another way.

Forcing someone to do something is the worst way for something to be completed. Sometimes this is needed, quite often it is not. Education is far too precious a thing to be thrown away as a "freebie" and this bill seeks to define it as a choice. Choice is important for growth so why keep it away from students?

[krazen1211]

Utah is a model education state. By stomping out parasitic teachers unions they have kept costs down.

[King]

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Yes, more students would choose to go to school if those dastardly requirement that 100% of them go to school weren't on the books!

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

This bill would not end education but it would combat the very awful idea that "everyone can learn in the same way." The outdated notion of school starting at 7:45 and ending eight hours later with bells dictating the day and a a lunch DOES NOT WORK FOR ALL STUDENTS. Some kids learn that way (most of the guys posting here fall in that category) but a vast number do not thrive in the compulsory education sphere. In fact lots of kids hate compulsory education and fight it on a daily basis. These are not bad kids of dumb kids, they are kids that need the freedom to seek new horizons of education. They are the rebels against an outdated factory system of education.

While I don't agree with the bill, I agree with these notions. Education, in of itself, must be rethought. The industrial system has been outgrown, and with people branching out to different learning patterns at different levels, the system itself does need to be restructured. The idea of offering trade school as an honorable alternative to regular education is, I feel, a path we should venture upon. Many students are simply not mature enough early enough to get a college education, but they do understand the value of money and work, and would probably perform well in a trade school knowing they will be given a job doing so.

[pbrower2a]

This bill would not end education but it would combat the very awful idea that "everyone can learn in the same way." The outdated notion of school starting at 7:45 and ending eight hours later with bells dictating the day and a a lunch DOES NOT WORK FOR ALL STUDENTS. Some kids learn that way (most of the guys posting here fall in that category) but a vast number do not thrive in the compulsory education sphere. In fact lots of kids hate compulsory education and fight it on a daily basis. These are not bad kids of dumb kids, they are kids that need the freedom to seek new horizons of education. They are the rebels against an outdated factory system of education.

While I don't agree with the bill, I agree with these notions. Education, in of itself, must be rethought. The industrial system has been outgrown, and with people branching out to different learning patterns at different levels, the system itself does need to be restructured. The idea of offering trade school as an honorable alternative to regular education is, I feel, a path we should venture upon. Many students are simply not mature enough early enough to get a college education, but they do understand the value of money and work, and would probably perform well in a trade school knowing they will be given a job doing so.

But -- there are good reasons for kids getting some of the traditional content of K-12 education. Kids attending trade schools still need to learn to read effectively and for a purpose and need to write coherently and simply -- and need to speak in a way that does not act as if they have put "Kick me!" on their backs. They need to learn math adequate for competent performance in the skilled trades. They also need to learn some civic responsibilities and respect for the legal system.

[barfbag]

I'm over half a decade out of high school by now, but as someone who has experienced this country's sh*tty public schools firsthand I have to admit some amount of empathy with this guy's perspective. Classes with a couple of great teaches excepted, I'd have been better off if someone just set me loose in a library for the remainder of the day.

However, I couldn't disagree more with the sentiment that "the responsibility to educate, and even care for their child, is [not] primarily the responsibility of the public school system." I believe that it is, even if most of our schools utterly fail to meet that obligation. But for practical reasons and for selfish ones - I'm refuse to force my kids to endure the same grinding waste of time that I had to endure - I'd probably support the kind of policies that he's advocating.

There's a lot to be done with the public schools. Feel free to discuss on my back to school thread under debates. Not all children learn in the same way which is why we need smaller classes and parents deciding where their children go to school.

[Zioneer]

Utah is a model education state. By stomping out parasitic teachers unions they have kept costs down.

Yes, and we've also been one of the WORST states on education.

[krazen1211]

Utah is a model education state. By stomping out parasitic teachers unions they have kept costs down.

Yes, and we've also been one of the WORST states on education.

I don't know if you're talking about yourself, champ, but on the metrics the state as a whole is pretty close to average.

Here's one.

[Miles]

Utah is a model education state. By stomping out parasitic teachers unions they have kept costs down.

Yes, and we've also been one of the WORST states on education.

I don't know if you're talking about yourself, champ, but on the metrics the state as a whole is pretty close to average.

I don't see why you have to be so crass.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

'Pretty close to average' is a 'model education state' now?

[krazen1211]

'Pretty close to average' is a 'model education state' now?

Their costs are the lowest in the nation; it's a modern day Moneyball. They do better than New York for 1/3 the price.

It's really hot stuff.

[RedSLC]

Aaron Osmond is a moron. Not only do Utahns not support ending compulsory education, they want to fund public education with more of their tax money (if not necessarily paying more in taxes), they have repeatedly shot down school vouchers, and plenty of them like teachers.

Aaron Osmond is further, a joke of a state senator that only got his seat because of his name and the Osmond family's known conservatism.

He is a moron. Fortunately, I don't see this succeeding. There have been several other idiotic proposals for education in Utah that thankfully have not been adopted. Another one I remember was when Chris "black baby" Buttars proposed eliminating 12th grade... which was also never adopted.

[RedSLC]

'Pretty close to average' is a 'model education state' now?

Their costs are the lowest in the nation; it's a modern day Moneyball. They do better than New York for 1/3 the price.

It's really hot stuff.

According to this study:

http://www.nea.org/assets/img/content/NEA_Rankings_And_Estimates-2013_(2).pdf

Utah is also dead last in public school attendance.

[RedSLC]

I've also looked at the state senate maps to see what district Mr. Osmond represents. His district covers the cities of South Jordan and Herriman, along with the west half of West Jordan, all of which are extremely republican areas.