Democrats and Hispanics love affair -- is it based on income?
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  Democrats and Hispanics love affair -- is it based on income?
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Author Topic: Democrats and Hispanics love affair -- is it based on income?  (Read 4863 times)
Redban
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« on: July 17, 2013, 11:15:33 AM »
« edited: July 17, 2013, 09:20:03 PM by Redban »

All the talk about immigration, but could it really be a question of income?

http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_12.html

2012 election:

People whose income were less than $50,000:

Obama - 60%
Romney - 38%

And Hispanics median income is $37,759.
(SOURCE = http://www.infoplease.com/spot/hhmcensus

They vote Democrat because of their wallets. It has nothing to do with self-deportation and everything to do with "Republicans are for rich people."
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barfbag
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2013, 11:34:10 AM »

Democrats always have affairs with people who make less than average income. They use the less fortunate for votes as the less fortunate use them for redistribution of the wealth.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2013, 07:55:36 PM »

As the child of a fairly recent immigrant from a developing country, I don't think white Americans with no recent foreign roots understand that if you are someone who cannot afford food for your family, can't afford a roof over your head and can't find a job, you're going to vote for the candidate who will give you those things and you'd be a fool if you didn't. And if you have food on the table, a roof over your head and some sort of employment, you're going to be fine with that person staying in office. Even if he's corrupt. Even if he shoots political enemies in the back of the head in dark alleys. Even if he suspends the constitution and makes himself President For Life.

It's beyond most Americans' frame of reference for why people like Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro or Muammar Qaddafi or the Shah of Iran would be able to stay in power for so many years. If your life precludes being able to take basic things like food, clothing and shelter for granted, those are your overriding concerns. Not free speech. Not government transparency.

I'm not trying to compare Barack Obama to a third world despot. I'm simply trying to get you to understand that even if Hispanics did agree with Republicans on abortion or family values or foreign policy, they're not going to vote for a party whose policies would threaten their economic security and make it harder for them to obtain things like education and healthcare. They're not far enough removed from severe poverty and scarcity to buy into the poor white mentality of "I don't need no health insurance as long as I have mah guns and mah freedom!"
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Blue3
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2013, 08:01:15 PM »

It's based on values.

Latino voters are liberal on both social issues and economic issues.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2013, 08:12:57 PM »

Server not found, oh well. I believe many Hispanics vote the way they do because of...

Personality (Obama clearly at least slightly better than Romney in this case)
Income in-capabilities to a degree (who's the party that's going to give them welfare?)
False image problem with the republican party, "The party of the rich guy".
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barfbag
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2013, 08:14:56 PM »

As the child of a fairly recent immigrant from a developing country, I don't think white Americans with no recent foreign roots understand that if you are someone who cannot afford food for your family, can't afford a roof over your head and can't find a job, you're going to vote for the candidate who will give you those things and you'd be a fool if you didn't. And if you have food on the table, a roof over your head and some sort of employment, you're going to be fine with that person staying in office. Even if he's corrupt. Even if he shoots political enemies in the back of the head in dark alleys. Even if he suspends the constitution and makes himself President For Life.

It's beyond most Americans' frame of reference for why people like Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro or Muammar Qaddafi or the Shah of Iran would be able to stay in power for so many years. If your life precludes being able to take basic things like food, clothing and shelter for granted, those are your overriding concerns. Not free speech. Not government transparency.

I'm not trying to compare Barack Obama to a third world despot. I'm simply trying to get you to understand that even if Hispanics did agree with Republicans on abortion or family values or foreign policy, they're not going to vote for a party whose policies would threaten their economic security and make it harder for them to obtain things like education and healthcare. They're not far enough removed from severe poverty and scarcity to buy into the poor white mentality of "I don't need no health insurance as long as I have mah guns and mah freedom!"

This is the problem. Too many people vote for their own self interests instead of the candidate who will keep us protected from the government and limit the power of government.
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barfbag
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 08:20:51 PM »

It can't be entirely income-based, because then Asians, who out-earn whites(especially Indian-Americans), vote heavily Democrat as well. Ditto with the gays and Jews.


Income is a big part of it, yes. But social issues and the perception that the Republican Party is nothing but a hate-fest sure isn't helping

There are many Hispanics who weren't born here and don't yet understand the bias of the liberal media. They come here and become poorly informed and poor information leads to voting for Democrats.
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 08:28:42 PM »

It can't be entirely income-based, because then Asians, who out-earn whites(especially Indian-Americans), vote heavily Democrat as well. Ditto with the gays and Jews.


Income is a big part of it, yes. But social issues and the perception that the Republican Party is nothing but a hate-fest sure isn't helping

There are many Hispanics who weren't born here and don't yet understand the bias of the liberal media. They come here and become poorly informed and poor information leads to voting for Democrats.

You really need to get new and more original arguments.
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barfbag
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 08:34:19 PM »

It can't be entirely income-based, because then Asians, who out-earn whites(especially Indian-Americans), vote heavily Democrat as well. Ditto with the gays and Jews.


Income is a big part of it, yes. But social issues and the perception that the Republican Party is nothing but a hate-fest sure isn't helping

There are many Hispanics who weren't born here and don't yet understand the bias of the liberal media. They come here and become poorly informed and poor information leads to voting for Democrats.

You really need to get new and more original arguments.

I don't think our answers are that different. The perception of the Republican Party throughout the world is a hate fest funded by the wealthy members of society who control the media such as Ted Turner and George Soros.
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 08:54:09 PM »

It can't be entirely income-based, because then Asians, who out-earn whites(especially Indian-Americans), vote heavily Democrat as well. Ditto with the gays and Jews.


Income is a big part of it, yes. But social issues and the perception that the Republican Party is nothing but a hate-fest sure isn't helping

There are many Hispanics who weren't born here and don't yet understand the bias of the liberal media. They come here and become poorly informed and poor information leads to voting for Democrats.

You really need to get new and more original arguments.

I don't think our answers are that different. The perception of the Republican Party throughout the world is a hate fest funded by the wealthy members of society who control the media such as Ted Turner and George Soros.

So I guess the birther talk, openly anti-gay platforms, use of racist terms by unaplogetic GOP politicians and supporters, and the fact that tax cuts passed by Republicans tend to benefit the rich, is all just a liberal media lie? The racism and homophobia is not hateful?
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barfbag
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2013, 08:58:20 PM »

It can't be entirely income-based, because then Asians, who out-earn whites(especially Indian-Americans), vote heavily Democrat as well. Ditto with the gays and Jews.


Income is a big part of it, yes. But social issues and the perception that the Republican Party is nothing but a hate-fest sure isn't helping

There are many Hispanics who weren't born here and don't yet understand the bias of the liberal media. They come here and become poorly informed and poor information leads to voting for Democrats.

You really need to get new and more original arguments.

I don't think our answers are that different. The perception of the Republican Party throughout the world is a hate fest funded by the wealthy members of society who control the media such as Ted Turner and George Soros.

So I guess the birther talk, openly anti-gay platforms, use of racist terms by unaplogetic GOP politicians and supporters, and the fact that tax cuts passed by Republicans tend to benefit the rich, is all just a liberal media lie? The racism and homophobia is not hateful?

Yes it's blown out of proportion by the media. There's the notion too that the birther movement was started by the left to make Republicans look bad. Having traditional Christian values that oppose gay marriage doesn't mean anyone is anti-gay. It means gays don't fit their values. Someone who makes a lot of money shouldn't be forced by the iron fist of law to pay for someone who doesn't make a lot of money. Charges of racism and homophobia is exactly what the media wants you to do.
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2013, 09:20:54 PM »

It can't be entirely income-based, because then Asians, who out-earn whites(especially Indian-Americans), vote heavily Democrat as well. Ditto with the gays and Jews.


Income is a big part of it, yes. But social issues and the perception that the Republican Party is nothing but a hate-fest sure isn't helping

There are many Hispanics who weren't born here and don't yet understand the bias of the liberal media. They come here and become poorly informed and poor information leads to voting for Democrats.

You really need to get new and more original arguments.

I don't think our answers are that different. The perception of the Republican Party throughout the world is a hate fest funded by the wealthy members of society who control the media such as Ted Turner and George Soros.

So I guess the birther talk, openly anti-gay platforms, use of racist terms by unaplogetic GOP politicians and supporters, and the fact that tax cuts passed by Republicans tend to benefit the rich, is all just a liberal media lie? The racism and homophobia is not hateful?

Yes it's blown out of proportion by the media. There's the notion too that the birther movement was started by the left to make Republicans look bad. Having traditional Christian values that oppose gay marriage doesn't mean anyone is anti-gay. It means gays don't fit their values. Someone who makes a lot of money shouldn't be forced by the iron fist of law to pay for someone who doesn't make a lot of money. Charges of racism and homophobia is exactly what the media wants you to do.

Reporting racism and homophobia is not "blowing it out of proportion". It's not the media's fault that Republicans think it's hilarious to make racist jokes on video and pass laws that discriminate/allow discrimination against gays(using Christianity as their reasons), it's the GOP's fault. The media didn't force thousands of people to post their incredible stupidity on Facebook and Twitter on election night.

And "forced to pay for people who don't make a lot of money"? Once again: unoriginal and simplistic argument. The federal government collects $2.6 trillion in taxes but spends about $140 billion on welfare. We're also paying for defense, education, infrastructure, etc. that also benefits higher earners. If you benefit the most from the system, you should pay more to maintain it. Draggin welfare recipients into this is one of the reasons people assume the GOP is for the rich.

The "liberal media"is always a useful scapegoat. The sooner you accept you have problems with racists and homophobes, and publicly and actively disown them, the perception will go away.

You. Still. Don't. Get. It. I'm going to assume you're white, straight, and probably from a middle-class or affluent family. You probably have never experienced discrimination, homophobia, or economic struggle. Thus, it's not a problem for you, but that doesn't mean it's not a problem for others. This is why the GOP keeps losing.

I'm wasting my time, and we're off topic.
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barfbag
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2013, 09:31:08 PM »

It can't be entirely income-based, because then Asians, who out-earn whites(especially Indian-Americans), vote heavily Democrat as well. Ditto with the gays and Jews.


Income is a big part of it, yes. But social issues and the perception that the Republican Party is nothing but a hate-fest sure isn't helping

There are many Hispanics who weren't born here and don't yet understand the bias of the liberal media. They come here and become poorly informed and poor information leads to voting for Democrats.

You really need to get new and more original arguments.

I don't think our answers are that different. The perception of the Republican Party throughout the world is a hate fest funded by the wealthy members of society who control the media such as Ted Turner and George Soros.

So I guess the birther talk, openly anti-gay platforms, use of racist terms by unaplogetic GOP politicians and supporters, and the fact that tax cuts passed by Republicans tend to benefit the rich, is all just a liberal media lie? The racism and homophobia is not hateful?

Yes it's blown out of proportion by the media. There's the notion too that the birther movement was started by the left to make Republicans look bad. Having traditional Christian values that oppose gay marriage doesn't mean anyone is anti-gay. It means gays don't fit their values. Someone who makes a lot of money shouldn't be forced by the iron fist of law to pay for someone who doesn't make a lot of money. Charges of racism and homophobia is exactly what the media wants you to do.

Reporting racism and homophobia is not "blowing it out of proportion". It's not the media's fault that Republicans think it's hilarious to make racist jokes on video and pass laws that discriminate/allow discrimination against gays(using Christianity as their reasons), it's the GOP's fault. The media didn't force thousands of people to post their incredible stupidity on Facebook and Twitter on election night.

And "forced to pay for people who don't make a lot of money"? Once again: unoriginal and simplistic argument. The federal government collects $2.6 trillion in taxes but spends about $140 billion on welfare. We're also paying for defense, education, infrastructure, etc. that also benefits higher earners. If you benefit the most from the system, you should pay more to maintain it. Draggin welfare recipients into this is one of the reasons people assume the GOP is for the rich.

The "liberal media"is always a useful scapegoat. The sooner you accept you have problems with racists and homophobes, and publicly and actively disown them, the perception will go away.

You. Still. Don't. Get. It. I'm going to assume you're white, straight, and probably from a middle-class or affluent family. You probably have never experienced discrimination, homophobia, or economic struggle. Thus, it's not a problem for you, but that doesn't mean it's not a problem for others. This is why the GOP keeps losing.

I'm wasting my time, and we're off topic.

We are off topic so how would you fix the problems of Hispanics? It's not just a scapegoat either. The press voted 88% for Clinton in 1992 and 92% for Kerry in 2004. Chris Matthews claimed to get a tingly feeling up his leg and all you have to criticize is Fox which is the one media network that's not liberal. NBC edited George Zimmerman's recording to make him sound racist.
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barfbag
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2013, 11:18:51 PM »

It can't be entirely income-based, because then Asians, who out-earn whites(especially Indian-Americans), vote heavily Democrat as well. Ditto with the gays and Jews.


Income is a big part of it, yes. But social issues and the perception that the Republican Party is nothing but a hate-fest sure isn't helping

There are many Hispanics who weren't born here and don't yet understand the bias of the liberal media. They come here and become poorly informed and poor information leads to voting for Democrats.

You really need to get new and more original arguments.

I don't think our answers are that different. The perception of the Republican Party throughout the world is a hate fest funded by the wealthy members of society who control the media such as Ted Turner and George Soros.

So I guess the birther talk, openly anti-gay platforms, use of racist terms by unaplogetic GOP politicians and supporters, and the fact that tax cuts passed by Republicans tend to benefit the rich, is all just a liberal media lie? The racism and homophobia is not hateful?

Yes it's blown out of proportion by the media. There's the notion too that the birther movement was started by the left to make Republicans look bad. Having traditional Christian values that oppose gay marriage doesn't mean anyone is anti-gay. It means gays don't fit their values. Someone who makes a lot of money shouldn't be forced by the iron fist of law to pay for someone who doesn't make a lot of money. Charges of racism and homophobia is exactly what the media wants you to do.

Reporting racism and homophobia is not "blowing it out of proportion". It's not the media's fault that Republicans think it's hilarious to make racist jokes on video and pass laws that discriminate/allow discrimination against gays(using Christianity as their reasons), it's the GOP's fault. The media didn't force thousands of people to post their incredible stupidity on Facebook and Twitter on election night.

And "forced to pay for people who don't make a lot of money"? Once again: unoriginal and simplistic argument. The federal government collects $2.6 trillion in taxes but spends about $140 billion on welfare. We're also paying for defense, education, infrastructure, etc. that also benefits higher earners. If you benefit the most from the system, you should pay more to maintain it. Draggin welfare recipients into this is one of the reasons people assume the GOP is for the rich.

The "liberal media"is always a useful scapegoat. The sooner you accept you have problems with racists and homophobes, and publicly and actively disown them, the perception will go away.

You. Still. Don't. Get. It. I'm going to assume you're white, straight, and probably from a middle-class or affluent family. You probably have never experienced discrimination, homophobia, or economic struggle. Thus, it's not a problem for you, but that doesn't mean it's not a problem for others. This is why the GOP keeps losing.

I'm wasting my time, and we're off topic.

We are off topic so how would you fix the problems of Hispanics?

The “problem of Hispanics”?


If I were a GOP strategist/politician, I would:
1.) Watch my wording.
2.) Publicly and aggressively disown any Republican who race-baits.
3.) Praise the work ethic. Talking up people is a good way to get them to like you, and when they like you, they are more open to voting for you.
4.) Go “Mitt the Moderate” and propose changes to Obamacare, in a way that shows Republicans care about healthcare reform (something that is deeply important to Hispanics, many of whom are not insured).
5.) Talk about the importance of education. Propose public-private solutions to improve education. 4 out of 5 charter schools perform worse or the same as public schools. So they’re out.

6.) Actually listen to them. What are their concerns? How do they want policies implemented to better their lives?
7.) Discuss how a smaller government can be more effective, while still delivering needed services in a cost-reducing manner that allows them to keep more of their tax dollars.
8.) Approach religious leaders about cleaning up their neighborhoods (the black community has seen great results with this) through community-based action. “Tough on Crime” will benefit the thousands of Hispanics cut down in violence, and they will accept this as long as we’re not portraying them as criminals.

If I really wanted to pander: embrace immigration reform with blanket amnesty. But I’m opposed to that. So that’ll be awkward.

I don’t see the GOP gaining a majority of the Hispanic vote for a long time. But if they can cut down the Democrats’ margins in CO/NV/NM/etc. like GWB did in 2004, you can win.


I was only talking about Hispanics but our party needs to speak of issues everyone can relate to more than social issues which tend to alienate half of the country each time. We can still be socially conservative but not highlight those positions or issues. Instead of talking about why lower taxes is good for the economy, talk about lower taxes being good for individuals and families as Bush did. Karl Rove made the point in 2008 that Republicans need to be able to talk about issues Democrats win or used to win on such as health care, energy, the environment, social security, Medicare, and education. We don't have to agree with them, but at least know how to talk about where we stand on such things. I know their advantages have changed due to high gas prices and Obamacare since 2008. However, I think supporting the immigration reform bill would be a good start along with talking points about hardships of starting out a life in America.
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eric82oslo
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2013, 12:00:18 AM »

As the child of a fairly recent immigrant from a developing country, I don't think white Americans with no recent foreign roots understand that if you are someone who cannot afford food for your family, can't afford a roof over your head and can't find a job, you're going to vote for the candidate who will give you those things and you'd be a fool if you didn't. And if you have food on the table, a roof over your head and some sort of employment, you're going to be fine with that person staying in office. Even if he's corrupt. Even if he shoots political enemies in the back of the head in dark alleys. Even if he suspends the constitution and makes himself President For Life.

It's beyond most Americans' frame of reference for why people like Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro or Muammar Qaddafi or the Shah of Iran would be able to stay in power for so many years. If your life precludes being able to take basic things like food, clothing and shelter for granted, those are your overriding concerns. Not free speech. Not government transparency.

I'm not trying to compare Barack Obama to a third world despot. I'm simply trying to get you to understand that even if Hispanics did agree with Republicans on abortion or family values or foreign policy, they're not going to vote for a party whose policies would threaten their economic security and make it harder for them to obtain things like education and healthcare. They're not far enough removed from severe poverty and scarcity to buy into the poor white mentality of "I don't need no health insurance as long as I have mah guns and mah freedom!"

This is the problem. Too many people vote for their own self interests instead of the candidate who will keep us protected from the government and limit the power of government.

Is it a problem with democracy that people vote for their best self interest? Isn't that the whole point with a democracy? Isn't the moral reason why the US government is fighting dictatorships abroad that people in those countries are getting hurt economically and politically in those countries?
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2013, 12:23:39 AM »

As the child of a fairly recent immigrant from a developing country, I don't think white Americans with no recent foreign roots understand that if you are someone who cannot afford food for your family, can't afford a roof over your head and can't find a job, you're going to vote for the candidate who will give you those things and you'd be a fool if you didn't. And if you have food on the table, a roof over your head and some sort of employment, you're going to be fine with that person staying in office. Even if he's corrupt. Even if he shoots political enemies in the back of the head in dark alleys. Even if he suspends the constitution and makes himself President For Life.

It's beyond most Americans' frame of reference for why people like Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro or Muammar Qaddafi or the Shah of Iran would be able to stay in power for so many years. If your life precludes being able to take basic things like food, clothing and shelter for granted, those are your overriding concerns. Not free speech. Not government transparency.

I'm not trying to compare Barack Obama to a third world despot. I'm simply trying to get you to understand that even if Hispanics did agree with Republicans on abortion or family values or foreign policy, they're not going to vote for a party whose policies would threaten their economic security and make it harder for them to obtain things like education and healthcare. They're not far enough removed from severe poverty and scarcity to buy into the poor white mentality of "I don't need no health insurance as long as I have mah guns and mah freedom!"

This is the problem. Too many people vote for their own self interests instead of the candidate who will keep us protected from the government and limit the power of government.

I know. I mean the nerve of those wretched poors voting for candidates who want to enact policies that benefit them. Don't they know that it's far better for them to send their kids to bed hungry at night and have no hope of sending them to college so that those who have more money than them can pay less in taxes? Such selfishness.
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barfbag
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2013, 02:03:17 AM »

As the child of a fairly recent immigrant from a developing country, I don't think white Americans with no recent foreign roots understand that if you are someone who cannot afford food for your family, can't afford a roof over your head and can't find a job, you're going to vote for the candidate who will give you those things and you'd be a fool if you didn't. And if you have food on the table, a roof over your head and some sort of employment, you're going to be fine with that person staying in office. Even if he's corrupt. Even if he shoots political enemies in the back of the head in dark alleys. Even if he suspends the constitution and makes himself President For Life.

It's beyond most Americans' frame of reference for why people like Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro or Muammar Qaddafi or the Shah of Iran would be able to stay in power for so many years. If your life precludes being able to take basic things like food, clothing and shelter for granted, those are your overriding concerns. Not free speech. Not government transparency.

I'm not trying to compare Barack Obama to a third world despot. I'm simply trying to get you to understand that even if Hispanics did agree with Republicans on abortion or family values or foreign policy, they're not going to vote for a party whose policies would threaten their economic security and make it harder for them to obtain things like education and healthcare. They're not far enough removed from severe poverty and scarcity to buy into the poor white mentality of "I don't need no health insurance as long as I have mah guns and mah freedom!"

This is the problem. Too many people vote for their own self interests instead of the candidate who will keep us protected from the government and limit the power of government.

I know. I mean the nerve of those wretched poors voting for candidates who want to enact policies that benefit them. Don't they know that it's far better for them to send their kids to bed hungry at night and have no hope of sending them to college so that those who have more money than them can pay less in taxes? Such selfishness.

That's a pretty extreme circumstance and not reflective of the middle class.
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ag
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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2013, 10:58:36 AM »

No. It is based on the Republicans consciously positioning themselves as The White Anglo party. Asians vote pretty much the same as Hispanics. If you choose to run as a party of one racial/ethnic/linguistic group, do not be surprised that you get few votes from other groups.
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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2013, 03:17:00 PM »

Also, people seem to think the surge of Asian immigrants (more coming in than Hispanics now) are the Japanese/Chinese/Korean ethnicities. In actuality, they're mostly Muslim immigrants from Asia... so I don't think the GOP will be doing that good of a job of attracting them either.
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eric82oslo
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« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2013, 05:05:58 PM »

Also, people seem to think the surge of Asian immigrants (more coming in than Hispanics now) are the Japanese/Chinese/Korean ethnicities. In actuality, they're mostly Muslim immigrants from Asia... so I don't think the GOP will be doing that good of a job of attracting them either.

I thought lots of them were Chinese and Indian. Muslims from which countries exactly? Arabia, Iran and Iraq?
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Blue3
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2013, 05:19:26 PM »
« Edited: July 18, 2013, 05:25:19 PM by Starwatcher »

Bangladash and India, some from other Southeast Asian countries.

(There are more Muslims in India than in any other country in the world)

Also I'm talking about the Asians immigrating to America now and in recent years, not the makeup of all those already here (who the Chinese would be the majority).
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barfbag
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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2013, 10:16:18 PM »

No. It is based on the Republicans consciously positioning themselves as The White Anglo party. Asians vote pretty much the same as Hispanics. If you choose to run as a party of one racial/ethnic/linguistic group, do not be surprised that you get few votes from other groups.

That's the stereotype of the GOP painted by the media.
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ag
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2013, 11:11:53 PM »

No. It is based on the Republicans consciously positioning themselves as The White Anglo party. Asians vote pretty much the same as Hispanics. If you choose to run as a party of one racial/ethnic/linguistic group, do not be surprised that you get few votes from other groups.

That's the stereotype of the GOP painted by the media.

Mostly by Fox News, I guess.
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barfbag
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« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2013, 02:04:02 AM »

No. It is based on the Republicans consciously positioning themselves as The White Anglo party. Asians vote pretty much the same as Hispanics. If you choose to run as a party of one racial/ethnic/linguistic group, do not be surprised that you get few votes from other groups.

That's the stereotype of the GOP painted by the media.

Mostly by Fox News, I guess.

What about Fox News?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2013, 05:09:24 AM »

If I really wanted to pander: embrace immigration reform with blanket amnesty. But I’m opposed to that. So that’ll be awkward.

That is an oxymoron if I ever heard one, for there is no way to reform the immigration system that offers any kind of mass or blanket amnesty. It just doesn't work.

I realize you are talking about politics, not policy but I think there is a cross over on this issue. I became political in 2005 when this party was crippled by corruption and incompetence (Iraq, Katrina, Delay, Abramoff etc), therefore I apply the same simple response to things that are failing that I had engrained in me at that time. "Fix It" and send the crooks to jail. The problem is that there is no way to fix immigration and offer a mass amnesty at the same time. The long term incentive created by yet another amnesty will undermine any gains in border security (even if they materialize and they never do) to the point where you end up with yet another several million illegals that have to be dealt with once again. It was established back in 2007, that completely securing the border cannot be acheived through actions taken on the border itself alone, but instead centered around removing the incentives to future illegal immigration. One of them is the cyclical amnesties we keep offering, which encourage people to come on the assumption there will always be another one next decade to become a part of. Another would be the complexities of the legal immigration system and lack of guest worker program, and a third would be the insufficient enforcement at the work place. There are others, but those three are the biggest. Once you have reduced the demand and thus the flow, then the volume of traffic will have been reduced to a level the border patrol can handle and they will then be able to focus on the terrorists, human traffickers, and drugs and gun smugglers. The Democrats and about half of the Republicans are just completely worthless on this issue because all they care about is selfish political and financial gain at the expense of the country and the immigrants themselves. I can count the number of Presidential candidates who truly understood this issue in the last two cycles on less than one hand. Romney was one of them.

I don't think attempting to offer such a bad idea is good politics either, because sooner or later you have to own the failure, the perpetuation of the broken system you have contributed to with such a "faux" reform. I also refuse to believe that Hispanics or any minority would deny votes to a party simply because that party refuses to perpetuate such incompetence, which I think would be tantamount to calling them anti-American and I refuse to believe that. This is an area where Romney preferred to just sacrifice Hispanic votes as opposed to articulating why amnesty doesn't work (I think it was a calculation made after Obama's executive dream act to not make the attempt). He could have gotten more then 27% if he actually tried with a strategy. Republicans do have to be pro-immigration to be sure and they have to not fall in the trap of appearing nativist, which is difficult since the open-borders crowd controls the media. They have to fight back against false myths like those they created, and certain primary contenders perpetuated, that claimed Mittens was anti-immigrant. Then they have to offer a credible alternative on bread and butter issues, that Hispanics and everyone can relate to and connect with as in some way helping them, which Romney failed to do on several issues, most notably on education where Obama was wide open to attack by and large.
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