IDS 1: Liberalization Act of 2013 (Passed)

[Dereich]

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Sponsor: Sjoyce

[Donerail]

Hey, y'all, so this would define how our law works in regards to all that crap that makes Jesus

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I like this, mostly, but I'm a bit concerned about the middle part of section 9 - it seems as if this would benefit people who don't wear helmets.

[Donerail]

I like this, mostly, but I'm a bit concerned about the middle part of section 9 - it seems as if this would benefit people who don't wear helmets.

It means that, if you're suing a guy who hit you (in an auto accident), you may have the money you get from it reduced if you don't wear a helmet (the thinking being that your injuries wouldn't be as severe if you had worn a helmet). It's designed to incentivize helmet-wearing.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I like this, mostly, but I'm a bit concerned about the middle part of section 9 - it seems as if this would benefit people who don't wear helmets.

It means that, if you're suing a guy who hit you (in an auto accident), you may have the money you get from it reduced if you don't wear a helmet (the thinking being that your injuries wouldn't be as severe if you had worn a helmet). It's designed to incentivize helmet-wearing.

Ah. I was thinking the guy who hit you would not have to pay as much if he had not been wearing a helmet. I'm OK with this now.

[Dereich]

I could never vote for a bill with clause 3. I also have a few problems with 5.

As for 4 and 7, it would be better to just establish an age of consent for the IDS. With a clear age set those problems would vanish. I could make an amendment to do that, if you'd consider it friendly.

[Velasco]

I can't vote clause 2. I believe gambling, lotteries, etcetera, must be regulated.

I'm all for the decriminalization of drug consumption, but providing that there is a market regulation, with control by the State on the drug distribution (specially in case of the heroine, amphetamine, MDMA, morphine, Opium, cocaine...), not to encourage consumption but to have a quality control on the drug vending for domestic consumption and preferably accompanied with detoxification therapy and medical examination. Also to fight the drug trafficking, or at least not encouraging it. As for marijuana and cannabis, there must be a limit for what is considered private consumption.

Being realistic, nude sunbathing should be practiced in nudist beaches, disallowing clothed people from them, as far as possible. No issue with topless in beaches, but I think streaking is a subject that concerns local authorities.

It means that, if you're suing a guy who hit you (in an auto accident), you may have the money you get from it reduced if you don't wear a helmet (the thinking being that your injuries wouldn't be as severe if you had worn a helmet). It's designed to incentivize helmet-wearing.

I think it's a non sense allowing motorcycle riders not to wear helmets and then saying that you want to encourage their use. Helmets should be obligatory when you are riding a motorcycle and optional for cyclists.

Seatbelts must be obligatory in motor vehicles (car, trucks and all the like).

Clause 7 is unacceptable to me because of this:

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Also, I'm in favour to determine an age of consent.

[Dereich]

If we did establish an age of consent, I'm thinking either 16 or 18 with a 3 year close-in-age exemption would be best. Any thoughts?

[Supersonic]

My views are, funnily enough, the complete opposite of andi's. I'm very much in favour of gambling and lottery deregulation, though strongly opposed to drug legalisation. I have mixed feelings on the other clauses.

Liberalization Act of 2013

1. The federal Legalization of Prostitution Act is recognized as applying to the IDS.

I oppose the federal legislation and I wouldn't have voted for it, but there is little choice to but acquiesce to its implementation in the region.

Gambling in the forms of bingo, poker, lottery, pari-mutuel betting, and sports betting shall be legal throughout the region. All forms of gambling in order to raise money for charities and all forms of gambling conducted on Native American reservations or at racetracks shall be legal throughout the region.

Yes, strongly support this.

Individuals may possess for personal use up to any quantity of marijuana, hashish, or cannabis oil, 40 pieces of magic mushrooms, 5 plants of peyote, 5 tablets of LSD, 4 tablets of ecstasy, 2 grams of amphetamine, 1 gram of MDMA, 2 grams of methamphetamine, 1.5 grams of heroin, 2 grams of morphine, 10 grams of opium, 0.1 grams of PCP, 0.5 grams of pure THC, 5 plants of coca, and 2 grams of cocaine with no legal punishment. Possession of larger than these amounts for personal use can result in a fine of up to $1000. Possession of higher than 100 times these amounts with intent to distribute can also result in a fine of up to $100,000. This article does not apply to minors and does not legalize illegal activities committed while under the influence of such drugs.

Completely objectionable. I could maybe stomach medical marijuana, but that's it.

4. The possession, sale, and purchase of pornographic materials by individuals older than the age of sixteen years shall be fully legal.

I could possibly support this, if the age is raised to eighteen.

Genital exposure with intent to shock those who do not want to see them shall be subject to a fine of up to $1000. This law does not apply to nude sunbathing, streaking, nude swimming, toplessness, or similar activities.

Yes, strongly support.

7. The act of sending or receiving nude or sexual images between two people between the ages of 13 and 18 where both individuals consent shall be fully legal. Sending the images to other persons without the consent of the person in the image shall be a misdemeanor but shall not result in the individual being labeled a sex offender.

Hmm, 13 feels a little low. Maybe increase it to 15? That or remove the misdemeanour's label and instead charge them as sex offenders. One or the other.

Individuals under the age of 12 in all seats and under the age of 18 in front seats must wear seatbelts when traveling in a motor vehicle. Violations of this law carry a fine of $100, but a law enforcement officer cannot stop or ticket an individual solely for not wearing a seatbelt, but only when the driver has committed another primary violation.

Seatbelts should be compulsory, sorry. We're literally asking for deaths in road accidents otherwise.

I support clause 9.

[Supersonic]

If we did establish an age of consent, I'm thinking either 16 or 18 with a 3 year close-in-age exemption would be best. Any thoughts?

18 would be adequate. With a 2 year exemption down to 16.

Though I could accept 16 too without the exemption.

[Zanas]

Don't care about the drugs or the gambling. Don't really know why Native Americans should be allowed to gamble more easily than any other people ?

Section 5 seems to be a bit to tricky to implement : you'd have to define exactly what is nude sunbathing, toplessness, streaking, nude swimming, even more so "smiliar activities". I mean define them legally.


Section 7, maybe we could move this 13 up to 15. Also, I think we are forgetting the consent of the person receiving the pictures : sending pics of any sexual content to unconsenting people should not be tolerated, and treated as part of sexual harrassment. Maybe it already is though, haven't checked. But it may have to be specified in the text of Section 7 to clarify.

Section 8 and 9 are just out of this world. Seatbelts and helmets have saved thousands of lives, and we'd like to ban them ? What is wrong with you Sjoyce ? Maybe we should give guns to every user of a car or motorcycle to protect them instead of those boring seatbelts and uncool helmets.

Seriously.

[Hash]

Proposed amendments:

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The age of consent stuff is from the Criminal Code of Canada, s. 150-153: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-70.html#docCont

[Donerail]

Section 8 and 9 are just out of this world. Seatbelts and helmets have saved thousands of lives, and we'd like to ban them ? What is wrong with you Sjoyce ? Maybe we should give guns to every user of a car or motorcycle to protect them instead of those boring seatbelts and uncool helmets.

Seriously.

No portion of the legislation bans helmets or seatbelts. Read the legislation.

Hash's amendment excluding the striking of 8 and 9 and the insertation of 12 is friendly.

[Zanas]

It banned their obligation. You got it.

Anyway, on Hash's amendment, I'd say age for possessing or purchasing pornography should be the same as age of consent, no reason to have two ages. So 16 for both seems right.

[Velasco]

Hash amendments on clause 3 plus the new clauses (from 8 to 12) address most of my concerns, so if we are going to vote on the rebuilt text, likely my vote will be affirmative.

It banned their obligation. You got it.

Anyway, on Hash's amendment, I'd say age for possessing or purchasing pornography should be the same as age of consent, no reason to have two ages. So 16 for both seems right.

I'm more or less neutral on here, since I'm not a great fan of the effects of pornography in the sexual education of young people who, on the other hand, have unlimited access across the Internet. The only way to counteract pornography's effects is to introduce a suitable program of sexual education in schools, adapted to the different ages, because evidently the physical and hormonal development is in very different phases at the 10 and at the age of 15.

[Dereich]

What would be the purpose of the control board? Would it actually restrict sales of the drug or would it just add another layer of government to do exactly what Sjoyce wanted in the first place?

[Supersonic]

Hash amendments on clause 3 plus the new clauses (from 8 to 12) address most of my concerns

I approve of all the clause amendments, bar 3, where I won't be voting for any drug decriminalisation. However, I recognise the effort made to include medical marijuana in the bill, and thank Hashemite for including my suggestions.

It banned their obligation. You got it.

Anyway, on Hash's amendment, I'd say age for possessing or purchasing pornography should be the same as age of consent, no reason to have two ages. So 16 for both seems right.

Hmm, yes, I would prefer 18 as the age of consent, though if we're to settle on 16, which I can accept, I feel it should be the same for pornography too. If only to simplify the law, approaching this from a pragmatic point of view.

If clause 3 was broken off the bill, I would be in the affirmative.

[Velasco]

What would be the purpose of the control board? Would it actually restrict sales of the drug or would it just add another layer of government to do exactly what Sjoyce wanted in the first place?

Basically it's a question of public health, the board control would ensure the quality of the stuff. OTOH, it could reduce profits for drug traffickers. Most of the deaths caused by drugs are due to adulteration. Also, with a control board a medical control would be easier, as well encouraging people to follow therapies for drug addiction.

[Napoleon]

Regions don't have the ability to restrict cocaine or medical marijuana.

[Supersonic]

Regions don't have the ability to restrict cocaine or medical marijuana.

Oh Jesus. What insanity.

[Velasco]

As PiT pointed in another place, this bill might enter in conflict with previous legislation. I think passing the improved version of this bill would be a good chance to clarify and to have a more comprehensive body of law, so I'm going to introduce little amendments.

On drug policy, clause 3:

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https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Comprehensive_Drug_Reform_Initiative_(Southeast)

On the age of consent, clause 8:

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https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Age_of_Consent_Bill

On pornography, there is a "Pornography Leniency Bill" (issued in 2010) establishing a series of fines, which is not bad at all, and an "Anti Child Pornography Act" with another series of fine punishments. I'll put the links for the consideration of my fellow legislators:

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Pornography_Leniency_Bill_(take_two)

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Anti-Opebo_Act

The title of the last bill was modified via amendment.

[Dereich]

Nice work digging up old bills Velasco! That's one way of handling the conflicting sections, of course. I'll propose my own: Striking section 3, 4 and 6 because they are handled by past bills (especially 4 and 6) and not adding Hashemite's amendments, except for what was his section 12. I could go either way with the original section 9. It would look something like this:

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By the way, I've PMed Sjoyce asking for his opinion on all proposed amendments; as sponsor he should have input on this.

[Hash]

I want to request a vote on my amendments. The current age of consent at 12 is way too low.

[Supersonic]

I'm very much in favour of Dereich's proposed amendments, and I too would echo what Hashemite has said, twelve as an age of consent is ridiculously low. Horrors such as this are what happens when social libertarianism infects a region. Sixteen would be an acceptable age of consent, with preference for eighteen.

[Dereich]

I want to request a vote on my amendments. The current age of consent at 12 is way too low.

Sure. I'll put it up for a vote tonight, I would like to give Sjoyce a chance to have his say first though.