Reasons for Russia's anti gay shift

[old timey villain]

It seems like Russia has always been pretty anti gay compared to other countries, but while its peers are becoming more accepting, the opposite is happening there- what with Putin's gay propaganda law.

Is there really a shift in public opinion or it just a matter of Russia passing laws that reflect what people have always thought about LGBT people? And if there has been a shift, what are the causes?

[Famous Mortimer]

I assume the laws will be repealed in 5 years, the next time Putin needs good press.

[Zanas]

You see, it's very difficult and bad communication to run pogroms against Jews nowadays... So...

[Hnv1]

I can report that the Russian population in Israel is indeed very anti-gay (and xenophobic to the bone), I think it's cultural thing and not a personal crusade by Putin. The strengthening of Orthodox faith and Slavic nationalism among past USSR countries give rise to horribly reactionist  stands

[opebo]

Have any of you actually met Russians?  They're all over the place in the beach resorts here, and a more unpleasant group of people would be difficult to imagine. 

[ag]

Have any of you actually met Russians?  They're all over the place in the beach resorts here, and a more unpleasant group of people would be difficult to imagine. 

I've seen one about 5 minutes ago. In the mirror Not that this would do anything, but confirm you in your observation

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

In my opinion, the intensification of anti-gay opinion in Russia is due to the perception that gay rights is a decadent Western thing. But the anti-gay opinion was always there.

[Kitteh]

The most seemingly obvious answer is the growth of the Orthodox Church in Russia. There are a lot of studies that show that Russia is one of the few countries in the world that is actually growing more religious at a significant rate. This has to do of course with the fall of the Soviet Union, which wasn't as anti-theistic as it is commonly portrayed, since they realized that active persecution of the church would be a dumb political move; but didn't allow any mass proselytizing or involvement in politics for the church. I'm not sure this is the answer, though, because it seems like a lot of non-religious Russians are just as anti-LGBT as religious ones.

Another potential reason is that even if Russians were just as homophobic in the Soviet era as they are now, there wasn't room to develop that homophobia into a political movement as there is now. The Soviet government may not have been pro-LGBT in any way, but they didn't want their people organizing based around any political issue and would prefer that it just wasn't talked about. This seems like the kind of thing that happens in a lot of places today, like China for example. Perhaps this ties into the rise of the Orthodox Church, as maybe homophobic atheists are less likely to organize or act upon their feelings as members of organized religions. This idea is more a theory than something I've researched, would be interested to see if it sounds valid to people other than me.

And what Ernest said is also definitely true. Maybe this is becoming a bigger issue now that the LGBT rights movement has more visibility in the West and the support of many Western governments, making the anti-Western backlash even bigger.

[LastVoter]

Have any of you actually met Russians?  They're all over the place in the beach resorts here, and a more unpleasant group of people would be difficult to imagine. 

The sacred right of being drunk.

[Mr. Morden]

Out of curiosity, are there any authoritarian regimes in the world that are fairly tolerant of homosexuality?  Do all of them, whether religious or not, claim that the gay rights movement is an evil Western plot?

(I know Russia is technically a democracy, but come on.)

[tpfkaw]

Out of curiosity, are there any authoritarian regimes in the world that are fairly tolerant of homosexuality?  Do all of them, whether religious or not, claim that the gay rights movement is an evil Western plot?

(I know Russia is technically a democracy, but come on.)

Men having sexual relations with men is viewed as fairly normal in much of the Muslim world, although self-identifying as homosexual is not and is persecuted.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Out of curiosity, are there any authoritarian regimes in the world that are fairly tolerant of homosexuality?  Do all of them, whether religious or not, claim that the gay rights movement is an evil Western plot?

(I know Russia is technically a democracy, but come on.)

The Communist Party of Cuba seems to have started taking a tolerant tack in recent years, although they were for a long time intensely homophobic. As I understand it some authoritarian countries in East Asia are, while not tolerant as such, not particularly invested in active intolerance either.

[DC Al Fine]

In my opinion, the intensification of anti-gay opinion in Russia is due to the perception that gay rights is a decadent Western thing. But the anti-gay opinion was always there.

This

Russians by and large do not share Western liberal values.

[ag]

Out of curiosity, are there any authoritarian regimes in the world that are fairly tolerant of homosexuality?  Do all of them, whether religious or not, claim that the gay rights movement is an evil Western plot?

Cuba, for instance.

[Lief 🗽]

Gay rights isn't really an issue in North Korea, but from what I've read they oppress gays no more than they do everyone else.

[ag]

Let's not invent things about the Orthodox church. Yes, a lot of Russians self-identify as Orthodox these days - but most of them rarely so much as see a priest, still less listen to what one says. Russian "religiosity" is, mostly, of rather mystical new-agey type - they'd pretty much believe in anything that appears to be a religion. Tradition is, mostly, followed in its breach. Though, of course, the STATE, such as it is, is getting increasingly identified with the Russian Orthodox Church.  And the Church is actively using this identification to attack all sort of competition that has emerged.

Anyway, no need to invent anything new. Russia has always been homophobic and illiberal. Under communism, male homosexuality (literally, "men lying with men", in the language of the Communist criminal code) was punishable with prison. At least, we are still not there - man lying with man by itself is not (yet?) punishable in the new Russia.

[Vosem]

Have any of you actually met Russians?  They're all over the place in the beach resorts here, and a more unpleasant group of people would be difficult to imagine. 

Russia is our holy fortress, Russia is our favorite country. Powerful will and great glory are things you have earned for all time.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Speaking of: There are a lot of recent Russian immigrants in the Sacramento, CA area. They are generally very right-wing, especially on cultural issues; a small segment of them are involved in local right-wing extremist groups.

[Beet]

Huh... the few Americans of Russian descent I've met have actually all be quite socially liberal, and I've generally attributed it partially to the fact that communism left a relatively secular legacy in Russia. But it seems that as that legacy fades, Russia is going back to what it was before World War I... one of the most illiberal countries in Europe.

[tpfkaw]

Huh... the few Americans of Russian descent I've met have actually all be quite socially liberal, and I've generally attributed it partially to the fact that communism left a relatively secular legacy in Russia. But it seems that as that legacy fades, Russia is going back to what it was before World War I... one of the most illiberal countries in Europe.

Most Russians I know are Orthodox Jews, so....

[ag]

Have any of you actually met Russians?  They're all over the place in the beach resorts here, and a more unpleasant group of people would be difficult to imagine. 

Russia is our holy fortress, Russia is our favorite country. Powerful will and great glory are things you have earned for all time.

Don't do this new-fangled bullsh**t. The guy was senile by the time (we are told) he wrote it.  The unbreakable Union of free republics was built forever by the Great Russia.

[ag]

Speaking of: There are a lot of recent Russian immigrants in the Sacramento, CA area. They are generally very right-wing, especially on cultural issues; a small segment of them are involved in local right-wing extremist groups.

And aren't most of them Jewish?

[ag]

Huh... the few Americans of Russian descent I've met have actually all be quite socially liberal, and I've generally attributed it partially to the fact that communism left a relatively secular legacy in Russia. But it seems that as that legacy fades, Russia is going back to what it was before World War I... one of the most illiberal countries in Europe.

Most Russians I know are Orthodox Jews, so....

And quite a few of them are, probably, birthers (at least, those over 50).

[ag]

Huh... the few Americans of Russian descent I've met have actually all be quite socially liberal, and I've generally attributed it partially to the fact that communism left a relatively secular legacy in Russia. But it seems that as that legacy fades, Russia is going back to what it was before World War I... one of the most illiberal countries in Europe.

The word "descent" may be key here. Those born in Russia (like your humble servant) are, usually, a lot more conservative. Especially culturally.

[Zuza]

Let's not invent things about the Orthodox church. Yes, a lot of Russians self-identify as Orthodox these days - but most of them rarely so much as see a priest, still less listen to what one says. Russian "religiosity" is, mostly, of rather mystical new-agey type - they'd pretty much believe in anything that appears to be a religion. Tradition is, mostly, followed in its breach. Though, of course, the STATE, such as it is, is getting increasingly identified with the Russian Orthodox Church.  And the Church is actively using this identification to attack all sort of competition that has emerged.

Yes, it's true. An overwhelming majority of Russians are Orthodox Christians now - but in name only.

Anyway, no need to invent anything new. Russia has always been homophobic and illiberal. Under communism, male homosexuality (literally, "men lying with men", in the language of the Communist criminal code) was punishable with prison. At least, we are still not there - man lying with man by itself is not (yet?) punishable in the new Russia.

Homosexuality was illegal and usually punishable in the USA and many Western European and Latin American countries until 60s-70s, but things have changed dramatically in merely few decades. The interesting thing is that Russia, unlike others, still stays in the homophobic past.