What are the ideological inconsistencies within the Democratic Party?

[Blue3]

What are the ideological inconsistencies within the Democratic Party?

As a political party, we know it isn't ideologically "pure"

Where are the inconsistencies within this party?

[tpfkaw]

That I can think of off the top of my head:

"No Wal-Mart in [insert city]!"/"Why doesn't anyone sell cheap food in the inner city?"

Protectionist on importation of goods but not of people

Complain about disparate treatment of black men in justice system but strongly support various laws which tend to increase such disparity (i.e. Violence Against Women Act)

Complain about energy/heating prices but support carbon taxes or caps, oppose allowing more production

Complain about "Wall Street" but more supportive of bailing out banks, other failing companies than Republicans

Get offended about characterizing welfare recipients/poor people negatively, claim that aborted fetuses would be "drains on society"/future criminals.

Get offended about negative characterization of disabled people, use eugenic arguments for abortion

Will generally fall into line with whatever party mouthpieces say, even when in complete contradiction to what said party mouthpieces said very recently or even simultaneously about similar issues.  (TBF this is true of everyone)

"Latte liberals" may vote against economic interest (two can play at this game)

Anti-empirical on GMOs, nuclear power, environmental impact in general, racial profiling, teacher performance, capital gains taxes, protectionism, taxes in general (Laffer curve), economic impact of regulations; claim GOP is "anti-science"

Complain about high rents, support zoning/"tenants rights" laws which greatly increase rents

Complain about high food prices, support agricultural supply limitations and protectionist trade policy on food

Support "access to health care" and stem cell research, but oppose animal testing and paid human testing of drugs

Riffing off the above, they feel it's worse to shampoo a rabbit than to rip a human fetus with the capability of feeling pain apart limb from limb.  Also anti-empirical on fetuses feeling pain.

[bedstuy]

Protectionist on importation of goods but not of people

Fair enough, but the mainstream of the Democratic party is pro-free trade and Democratic protectionist elements tend to be more anti-immigration than the rest of the party.

Complain about "Wall Street" but more supportive of bailing out banks, other failing companies than Republicans

All sane people supported some form of a bank bailout.  There were no other realistic options.

But, I think your general points are correct. 

-Liberals tend to scapegoat corporations and valorize minorities.  Yet, white, upper-middle class liberals don't actually love minorities in practice and they worship at the altar of socially acceptable corporations like Apple and Whole Foods.
-For certain people, environmentalism is a superstitious cult.  Vegans are worse than Southern Baptists are far as I'm concerned.   

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

That such a right-wing party is the "left" party.

[King]

The left has their own selective science.  Vaccines is the famous one, but there's also a lot of ignorance on things like waste disposal that go unchallenged.  Except for aluminum cans, landfills are more environmentally efficient than recycling centers.

I also remember back in the day when "say plastic not paper bags" was a big thing to save trees even though trees are a renewable resource and plastics are not.  They've dropped the plastic jargon, but they're still holding up to the saving trees baloney with unsanitary reusable cloth bags.  Trees are very easy to replace unless we start making paper out of giant sequoias.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Plus paper bags can be recycled. Most environmentalists advise paper now however.

[bgwah]

-For certain people, environmentalism is a superstitious cult.  Vegans are worse than Southern Baptists are far as I'm concerned.   

lol

oh brother...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Protectionist on importation of goods but not of people

Fair enough, but the mainstream of the Democratic party is pro-free trade and Democratic protectionist elements tend to be more anti-immigration than the rest of the party.

Complain about "Wall Street" but more supportive of bailing out banks, other failing companies than Republicans

All sane people supported some form of a bank bailout.  There were no other realistic options.

But, I think your general points are correct. 

-Liberals tend to scapegoat corporations and valorize minorities.  Yet, white, upper-middle class liberals don't actually love minorities in practice and they worship at the altar of socially acceptable corporations like Apple and Whole Foods.
-For certain people, environmentalism is a superstitious cult.  Vegans are worse than Southern Baptists are far as I'm concerned.   

That's not true. Whole Foods is a terrible right wing Randian corporation. In 2009 liberal groups were holding not only boycotts but pickets of it over the CEO's anti-Obamacare efforts.

[barfbag]

Where the hell do I start? How about with abortion when Democrats say minors should be allowed to have abortions because they're young adults, but when a complication comes from the abortion, then all of a sudden the girl becomes the parents' child and responsibility. Obama said that Bush's debt was unpatriotic and then spent more than all other presidents combined. They claim to want peace, but won't do anything to stop that which threatens peace. RFK Jr. preaches environmentalism and energy conservation but flies around in a helicopter polluting our environment. Then there's Ozone Al whose electric bill is well into the thousands. Their party preaches tolerance but won't tolerate anything conservative. Sure they'll tolerate gays like they tolerate a crying baby on an airplane but refuse to tolerate Christianity. A lot of Democrats want to ban cigarettes in every single restaurant, bar, park, on the streets, and everywhere, but advocate the legalization of marijuana. What about Bush's judicial nominees? They filibustered them one by one but want to remove the filibuster now that it's their party nominating the federal judges.

[King]

Protectionist on importation of goods but not of people

Fair enough, but the mainstream of the Democratic party is pro-free trade and Democratic protectionist elements tend to be more anti-immigration than the rest of the party.

Complain about "Wall Street" but more supportive of bailing out banks, other failing companies than Republicans

All sane people supported some form of a bank bailout.  There were no other realistic options.

But, I think your general points are correct. 

-Liberals tend to scapegoat corporations and valorize minorities.  Yet, white, upper-middle class liberals don't actually love minorities in practice and they worship at the altar of socially acceptable corporations like Apple and Whole Foods.
-For certain people, environmentalism is a superstitious cult.  Vegans are worse than Southern Baptists are far as I'm concerned.   

That's not true. Whole Foods is a terrible right wing Randian corporation. In 2009 liberal groups were holding not only boycotts but pickets of it over the CEO's anti-Obamacare efforts.

The CEO of Whole Foods being against Obamacare was always odd since the company's benefits package for full time employees already far surpasses the minimum requirements of the law.

[barfbag]

Protectionist on importation of goods but not of people

Fair enough, but the mainstream of the Democratic party is pro-free trade and Democratic protectionist elements tend to be more anti-immigration than the rest of the party.

Complain about "Wall Street" but more supportive of bailing out banks, other failing companies than Republicans

All sane people supported some form of a bank bailout.  There were no other realistic options.

But, I think your general points are correct. 

-Liberals tend to scapegoat corporations and valorize minorities.  Yet, white, upper-middle class liberals don't actually love minorities in practice and they worship at the altar of socially acceptable corporations like Apple and Whole Foods.
-For certain people, environmentalism is a superstitious cult.  Vegans are worse than Southern Baptists are far as I'm concerned.   

That's not true. Whole Foods is a terrible right wing Randian corporation. In 2009 liberal groups were holding not only boycotts but pickets of it over the CEO's anti-Obamacare efforts.

I remember that. Whole Foods is liberal though.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Protectionist on importation of goods but not of people

Fair enough, but the mainstream of the Democratic party is pro-free trade and Democratic protectionist elements tend to be more anti-immigration than the rest of the party.

Complain about "Wall Street" but more supportive of bailing out banks, other failing companies than Republicans

All sane people supported some form of a bank bailout.  There were no other realistic options.

But, I think your general points are correct. 

-Liberals tend to scapegoat corporations and valorize minorities.  Yet, white, upper-middle class liberals don't actually love minorities in practice and they worship at the altar of socially acceptable corporations like Apple and Whole Foods.
-For certain people, environmentalism is a superstitious cult.  Vegans are worse than Southern Baptists are far as I'm concerned.   

That's not true. Whole Foods is a terrible right wing Randian corporation. In 2009 liberal groups were holding not only boycotts but pickets of it over the CEO's anti-Obamacare efforts.

I remember that. Whole Foods is liberal though.

The CEO of Whole Foods is a libertarian (and emphatically not of the Randian variety).  The conflict here for liberals is between supporting a corporation that is run according to socially conscious principles or vilifying it for not supporting a political agenda.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The gap between words and deeds is pretty immense.

[DC Al Fine]

1) Wants high wages, but supports massive immigration

2) Supports working families, supports development restrictions that makes housing unaffordable

3) Protects the most vulnerable... except babies

4) Wants to reduce poverty, by supporting sexual libertinism

And for some of the forumites

5) Supports gay marriage, despises straight marriage

[bedstuy]

Protectionist on importation of goods but not of people

Fair enough, but the mainstream of the Democratic party is pro-free trade and Democratic protectionist elements tend to be more anti-immigration than the rest of the party.

Complain about "Wall Street" but more supportive of bailing out banks, other failing companies than Republicans

All sane people supported some form of a bank bailout.  There were no other realistic options.

But, I think your general points are correct. 

-Liberals tend to scapegoat corporations and valorize minorities.  Yet, white, upper-middle class liberals don't actually love minorities in practice and they worship at the altar of socially acceptable corporations like Apple and Whole Foods.
-For certain people, environmentalism is a superstitious cult.  Vegans are worse than Southern Baptists are far as I'm concerned.   

That's not true. Whole Foods is a terrible right wing Randian corporation. In 2009 liberal groups were holding not only boycotts but pickets of it over the CEO's anti-Obamacare efforts.

Most people have no idea about the politics of the company itself.  But, you could replace Whole Foods with Trader Joe's, Netflix, whatever clothing brand is popular at the moment and the point would be the same.

[Oak Hills]

The left has their own selective science.  Vaccines is the famous one, but there's also a lot of ignorance on things like waste disposal that go unchallenged.  Except for aluminum cans, landfills are more environmentally efficient than recycling centers.

I also remember back in the day when "say plastic not paper bags" was a big thing to save trees even though trees are a renewable resource and plastics are not.  They've dropped the plastic jargon, but they're still holding up to the saving trees baloney with unsanitary reusable cloth bags.  Trees are very easy to replace unless we start making paper out of giant sequoias.

I'd like to see some data for recycling being inefficient and reusable bags being worse than paper. Those seem to defy common sense. Also, I'm not sure I've ever been to a chain grocery that even has paper bags.

[King]

The left has their own selective science.  Vaccines is the famous one, but there's also a lot of ignorance on things like waste disposal that go unchallenged.  Except for aluminum cans, landfills are more environmentally efficient than recycling centers.

I also remember back in the day when "say plastic not paper bags" was a big thing to save trees even though trees are a renewable resource and plastics are not.  They've dropped the plastic jargon, but they're still holding up to the saving trees baloney with unsanitary reusable cloth bags.  Trees are very easy to replace unless we start making paper out of giant sequoias.

I'd like to see some data for recycling being inefficient and reusable bags being worse than paper. Those seem to defy common sense. Also, I'm not sure I've ever been to a chain grocery that even has paper bags.

The destruction and reassembly of paper and plastics requires ton of energy.  It also produces smog in the atmosphere.  Aluminum cans are fine because they simply be melted and reformed, very cheap and with little waste.  Hell, you can use a magnet to sort them even.  Additionally, paper is made from a reusable living resource and actually biodegrades quickly.  Plastics obviously stay around a lot longer, but if you bury it in the ground in a landfill and then build a golf course or airport on top of it, that should give it the millions of years decomposing bacteria needs to get the job done.

Reusable bags gather bacteria over time and should be hot washed frequently to avoid contamination.  Water is a more precious resource not to waste than trees.  Paper bags are superior and paper as a product is ecologically superior.

We should all be using a lot more products made of paper.  It's cheap, renewable, and encourages the planting of more trees than it cuts down as it creates a financial incentive around trees existing, which would reduce this whole carbon dioxide thing.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I can name a few:

1. Supporting the use of fluorescent lightbulbs over incandescent despite the fact that fluorescent bulbs contain mercury and CFCs

2. Claiming to support human rights and opposing the death penalty while being pro-choice

3. Accuse Republicans of being the "party of the rich" despite having the support of most of America's wealthiest executives and businessmen (includign George Soros, Warren Buffett, and Ted Turner)

4. Accuse Republicans of being "anti-science," while denying science that supports life beginning at conception and naturally-occurring factors in global warming, or contradicts the theory of evolution and links between immunizations and autism

5. Support embryonic stem cell research to "find cures," but oppose unethical research methods on animals

6. Oppose prayer and reading the Bible in school, but are fine with textbooks that propagate Islam and Eastern religions over Christianity/Judaism

7. Claims to be more caring toward women those with special needs/disablities (and accusing Republicans of a "war on women"), but supports allowing sex-selective abortions and abortion of babies known to have special needs or disabilities.

[Brittain33]

The left has their own selective science.  Vaccines is the famous one...

Do any figures in the Democratic party buy into that, though? There are some fringe views like that and anti-flouridation but they're generally held by people who only vote Democratic because they have to, but think of the Democrats as sell-outs...

[bedstuy]

1. Supporting the use of fluorescent lightbulbs over incandescent despite the fact that fluorescent bulbs contain mercury and CFCs

Burning coal is the main cause of mercury pollution.  So, the energy savings of a CFL will net reduce mercury pollution in many parts of the country.  If CFLs are properly disposed of, it's not a major pollution issue at all.  Whereas, energy consumption is always a major issue.  Also, CFLs don't contain CFCs.  What made you think that?  The fact that CFL is one letter off from CFC?

3. Accuse Republicans of being the "party of the rich" despite having the support of most of America's wealthiest executives and businessmen (includign George Soros, Warren Buffett, and Ted Turner)

Just false. 3 dudes does not equal most.

4. Accuse Republicans of being "anti-science," while denying science that supports life beginning at conception and naturally-occurring factors in global warming, or contradicts the theory of evolution and links between immunizations and autism

Come on man...  You can do better than that.  There is no link between vaccines and autism and the fact of evolution is settled science. 

5. Support embryonic stem cell research to "find cures," but oppose unethical research methods on animals

PETA extremists are not in the mainstream of the Democratic Party.  And I don't think anyone supports unethical methods of anything as a matter of policy.

6. Oppose prayer and reading the Bible in school, but are fine with textbooks that propagate Islam and Eastern religions over Christianity/Judaism

Not true.

7. Claims to be more caring toward women those with special needs/disablities (and accusing Republicans of a "war on women"), but supports allowing sex-selective abortions and abortion of babies known to have special needs or disabilities.

This is a complicated issue so I'll give you a pass on misunderstanding what liberals believe.

[hopper]

Where the hell do I start? How about with abortion when Democrats say minors should be allowed to have abortions because they're young adults, but when a complication comes from the abortion, then all of a sudden the girl becomes the parents' child and responsibility. Obama said that Bush's debt was unpatriotic and then spent more than all other presidents combined. They claim to want peace, but won't do anything to stop that which threatens peace. RFK Jr. preaches environmentalism and energy conservation but flies around in a helicopter polluting our environment. Then there's Ozone Al whose electric bill is well into the thousands. Their party preaches tolerance but won't tolerate anything conservative. Sure they'll tolerate gays like they tolerate a crying baby on an airplane but refuse to tolerate Christianity. A lot of Democrats want to ban cigarettes in every single restaurant, bar, park, on the streets, and everywhere, but advocate the legalization of marijuana. What about Bush's judicial nominees? They filibustered them one by one but want to remove the filibuster now that it's their party nominating the federal judges.

Debt-True its hypocritical of Obama to criticize Bush W. on the debt.

Legalization of marijuana-Your 1/2 right but I'm sure Democrats don't support smoking marijuana in restaurants, and in bars. Parks and streets-well where else can you smoke it besides in your own house?

Fillibuster- That's mostly true the Democrats always complain about the Republicans filibustering but Republicans do that because Reid fills the amendment tree when it comes to amending  legislation. Nominees-The Dems have a point on cabinet nominees but true then Dem Senate Leader Tom Daschle(D-SD) did support filibustering Bush W's. Judicial Nominees from my understanding.

[Oak Hills]

4. Accuse Republicans of being "anti-science," while denying science that supports life beginning at conception and naturally-occurring factors in global warming, or contradicts the theory of evolution and links between immunizations and autism

This "life beginning at conception" thing is just stupid. Before conception, there were two living cells. Before the process of meiosis created those cells, there were other living cells within the parents' bodies that spawned them. And we can keep going all the way back to the initial origin of life on earth, however that may have come about. So, life began 4 billion years ago and it has been an unbroken chain ever since leading to each individual. Life has only begun once. I suppose one could say that the creation of the genetic code of a potential future individual comprises the creation of that individual, but "life begins at conception" is not even a remotely accurate way of describing that.

[hopper]

1. The party supports a lot of regulations that are harmful to the poor as implemented, including occupational licensing, subsidized rent, rent controls, and a terrible set of agricultural policies that's even worse for poor people in the developing world than it is for impoverished Americans.

2. They're also pretty awful about standing up to various forms of "corporate welfare," especially in the manufacturing, banking, energy, agricultural, and healthcare sectors.

3. Too often, the party refuses to look out for people who rely on public services - especially when those people are members of marginalized groups - as much as it looks out for those who provide them.

4. The party talks a big game on confronting the security state, civil liberties abuses, and military bloat, and relies on people who take both issues seriously for money and votes. Its record while in office utterly fails to match its rhetoric.

Farm Subsidies-Well both party's support them because without the subsidies most vegetables and fruit would be imported from other countries.

Rent Controls- Well poor people live rent control housing. I don't think people should be getting rent subsidies unless you are disabled that you can't work anymore so I agree with you there.

[Oak Hills]

The destruction and reassembly of paper and plastics requires ton of energy.  It also produces smog in the atmosphere.  Aluminum cans are fine because they simply be melted and reformed, very cheap and with little waste.  Hell, you can use a magnet to sort them even.  Additionally, paper is made from a reusable living resource and actually biodegrades quickly.  Plastics obviously stay around a lot longer, but if you bury it in the ground in a landfill and then build a golf course or airport on top of it, that should give it the millions of years decomposing bacteria needs to get the job done.

That applies to other metals too, doesn't it?

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Another advantage of paper is that it is the top physical export of the United States, which I'm guessing means an increase in paper use would be very beneficial to the US economy. Plus, I love the texture of paper personally.

[7,052,770]

Not sure which is the most ridiculous strawman on this thread.  Probably the notion that liberals are somehow anti-vaccine.  Name one prominent liberal politician who ever was.

Conversely,  it was the 2012 Republican debates in which candidates were still pushing these myths. "Vaccines made this girl retarded!!1" and the like.