The American Right: The more things change....

[All Along The Watchtower]

...the more they stay the same.

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-Richard Nixon

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-Barry Goldwater

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-George Wallace

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-Curtis LeMay

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-Ronald Reagan

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-Phyllis Schafly

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-William F. Buckley, Jr.

[Torie]

When did Buckley make that racist comment?  Yes, I was aware that he had racist tendencies. Once asked when black Africa should get independence, his answer and I quote was "when they stop eating each other."  I remember wincing at it at the time, about 40 years ago. Buckley at the  very least would get a lot of infraction points for hyperbole if he posted around here from those mods into infracting for that sort of thing.

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

[All Along The Watchtower]

When did Buckley make that racist comment?  Yes, I was aware that he had racist tendencies. Once asked when black Africa should get independence, his answer and I quote was "when they stop eating each other."  I remember wincing at it at the time, about 40 years ago. Buckley at the  very least would get a lot of infraction points for hyperbole if he posted around here from those mods into infracting for that sort of thing.

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Editorial in National Review in August of 1957.

My point in making this thread was simply to demonstrate, via a list of quotes from prominent right-wing figures of the past, that the contemporary Tea Party, et al didn't emerge from any sort of historical vacuum.

Furthermore, if you notice the arguments made in the quotes by Goldwater, Wallace, and Reagan,  they are literally the same arguments being made today by many Republicans and right-wing public figures, even if in different contexts.

[Indy Texas]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

[Vosem]

The only statements which the American right still espouses (beyond individual cracks, as still totally mainstream political positions) are those of Goldwater and Reagan. And they are both absolutely true. (The second isn't ongoing at this very minute, and hasn't, as many on the right allege, been ongoing for the past several decades, but it is true in principle.)

[Torie]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

No, of course, but "hating" but one minority is I suppose better than hating two of them. That I guess was my assumption anyway, when I wrote the statement. Buckley started his own rag in part because the balance of those on the Right in 1950 were Jew hating.

[Vosem]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

He is, and that is not an atypical position among zionists sadly.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

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-Ronald Reagan


Is Reagan talking about the New Deal that he supported?

[The Free North]

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-Ronald Reagan


Is Reagan talking about the New Deal that he supported?

Probably.

Although in theory he is not wrong.

Americans will accept soft forms of tyranny under the guise of popular political parties.

[krazen1211]

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-Ronald Reagan


Is Reagan talking about the New Deal that he supported?

Probably.

Although in theory he is not wrong.

Americans will accept soft forms of tyranny under the guise of popular political parties.

One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.




Of course, this monkey business has resulted in sizable budget deficits.

[The Free North]

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-Ronald Reagan


Is Reagan talking about the New Deal that he supported?

Probably.

Although in theory he is not wrong.

Americans will accept soft forms of tyranny under the guise of popular political parties.

One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.




Of course, this monkey business has resulted in sizable budget deficits.

Naturally. Humanitarianism has been the facade behind which tyranny has hid for a long time.

Ultimately, both parties are at fault, especially for the budget deficits.

[Vosem]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

Obviously not (that was quite poorly phrased), just that most groups haven't and Jews have, and that one could argue that it is more offensive to discriminate against groups such as Jews (and Bosniaks and Tutsis) that have suffered genocide. 'Other groups' is not in this sense 'all other groups'. I didn't realize grammatical ambiguity existed there; sorry.

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

He is, and that is not an atypical position among zionists sadly.

Oh? Do tell me more.

[barfbag]

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-Ronald Reagan


Is Reagan talking about the New Deal that he supported?

No the New Deal was never mentioned. What Thomas said was 100% correct and look at us now. Socialism and 21st century liberalism are no laughing matters and should be combatted with the strongest of force in order to preserve our freedom. There's a fine line between government assistance and what today's Democrats want. In order to see what Democrats want look at Obama's speech from 2003 about using tricks to turn our health care system into a single payer system.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

Obviously not (that was quite poorly phrased), just that most groups haven't and Jews have, and that one could argue that it is more offensive to discriminate against groups such as Jews (and Bosniaks and Tutsis) that have suffered genocide. 'Other groups' is not in this sense 'all other groups'. I didn't realize grammatical ambiguity existed there; sorry.

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

He is, and that is not an atypical position among zionists sadly.

Oh? Do tell me more.

Well, the Israeli government was once a huge supporter of Apartheid, despite using the call of "Never again! Never again! Never again!" as their most commonly used defense of their territorial integrity. It is frankly hypocritical, especially since Gaza is probably the world’s largest concentration camp right now (though launching rockets at Jewish preschools is not excusable and greatly discredits their cause.) Don't mistake me for being anti-Israel, because I am a supporter of Israel's right to exist. I am just annoyed by the often heard claim (at least down here in Florida, where the local Tea Party groups are mostly Jewish or Christian Zionist) that the Holocaust somehow is a more legitimate genocide and lends Israel a free hand to do anything it wants, despite the fact that Israel was not even an independent state at the time of the Nazi atrocities.

[longtimelurker]

A notorious example of William F Buckley's anti-Semitism.  Surprised no one has brought this up yet:

http://sanseverything.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/goldbergs-fascism-and-the-real-thing/

Of course, The New York Times and the UN also condemned Israel for "violating Argentina's sovereignty" and other crimes far more horrible than genocide by kidnapping Eichmann and bringing him back to Israel to stand trial.  It is often thought that Israel knew where Mengele was as early as the 1960's, but feared yet more global condemnation if they attempted to kidnap him (they knew they could never get him extradited) and try him in Israel.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

A notorious example of William F Buckley's anti-Semitism.  Surprised no one has brought this up yet:

http://sanseverything.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/goldbergs-fascism-and-the-real-thing/

Of course, The New York Times and the UN also condemned Israel for "violating Argentina's sovereignty" and other crimes far more horrible than genocide by kidnapping Eichmann and bringing him back to Israel to stand trial.  It is often thought that Israel knew where Mengele was as early as the 1960's, but feared yet more global condemnation if they attempted to kidnap him (they knew they could never get him extradited) and try him in Israel.

No nation has the right to just kidnap a citizen from another nation for crimes he committed, no matter how horrible. Even the Bin Laden raid was wrong in my book, though I think I am emotionally invested enough in the situation to discard my usual respect for law and order.

[longtimelurker]

A notorious example of William F Buckley's anti-Semitism.  Surprised no one has brought this up yet:

http://sanseverything.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/goldbergs-fascism-and-the-real-thing/

Of course, The New York Times and the UN also condemned Israel for "violating Argentina's sovereignty" and other crimes far more horrible than genocide by kidnapping Eichmann and bringing him back to Israel to stand trial.  It is often thought that Israel knew where Mengele was as early as the 1960's, but feared yet more global condemnation if they attempted to kidnap him (they knew they could never get him extradited) and try him in Israel.

No nation has the right to just kidnap a citizen from another nation for crimes he committed, no matter how horrible. Even the Bin Laden raid was wrong in my book, though I think I am emotionally invested enough in the situation to discard my usual respect for law and order.

As opposed to the Israelis, who weren't emotionally invested. 

No nation - not even Argentina - has a right to "harbor" genocidal maniacs, either.

Considering what had transpired from 1933-1945, Israel could be described as the Bible described Noah - "blameless in his generation."

[Cory]

He is, and that is not an atypical position among zionists sadly.

Anti-Semitic hack.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

He is, and that is not an atypical position among zionists sadly.

Anti-Semitic hack.

Because all Jews are Zionists

A notorious example of William F Buckley's anti-Semitism.  Surprised no one has brought this up yet:

http://sanseverything.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/goldbergs-fascism-and-the-real-thing/

Of course, The New York Times and the UN also condemned Israel for "violating Argentina's sovereignty" and other crimes far more horrible than genocide by kidnapping Eichmann and bringing him back to Israel to stand trial.  It is often thought that Israel knew where Mengele was as early as the 1960's, but feared yet more global condemnation if they attempted to kidnap him (they knew they could never get him extradited) and try him in Israel.

No nation has the right to just kidnap a citizen from another nation for crimes he committed, no matter how horrible. Even the Bin Laden raid was wrong in my book, though I think I am emotionally invested enough in the situation to discard my usual respect for law and order.

As opposed to the Israelis, who weren't emotionally invested. 

No nation - not even Argentina - has a right to "harbor" genocidal maniacs, either.

Considering what had transpired from 1933-1945, Israel could be described as the Bible described Noah - "blameless in his generation."

So all Jews are automatically bound to Israel and vice versa? That is a rather idealistic vision for geopolitics. Israel had no right to violate Argentina's sovereignty, and that is that. You have a rather subjective view on foreign policy.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

...the more they stay the same.

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-Ronald Reagan

So what exactly is American liberalism in favor of that would not be acceptable to a socialist?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

When did Buckley make that racist comment?  Yes, I was aware that he had racist tendencies. Once asked when black Africa should get independence, his answer and I quote was "when they stop eating each other."  I remember wincing at it at the time, about 40 years ago. Buckley at the  very least would get a lot of infraction points for hyperbole if he posted around here from those mods into infracting for that sort of thing.

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Editorial in National Review in August of 1957.

My point in making this thread was simply to demonstrate, via a list of quotes from prominent right-wing figures of the past, that the contemporary Tea Party, et al didn't emerge from any sort of historical vacuum.

Furthermore, if you notice the arguments made in the quotes by Goldwater, Wallace, and Reagan,  they are literally the same arguments being made today by many Republicans and right-wing public figures, even if in different contexts.

Is this particularly surprising?

[Badger]

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-Ronald Reagan


Is Reagan talking about the New Deal that he supported?

Probably.

Although in theory he is not wrong.

Americans will accept soft forms of tyranny under the guise of popular political parties.

One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.




Of course, this monkey business has resulted in sizable budget deficits.

One should never espouse Reaganism and castigate high deficits in the same sentence. Sadly, the mens rea of my party today is simply to reduce taxes and cerain types of government spending, NOT to reduce deficits. Sadly, even most mainstream Republicans have accepted the Norquist "killing the beast" plan of using high deficits as a means to that end, not an inherent evil as was once the case.

[Vosem]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

Obviously not (that was quite poorly phrased), just that most groups haven't and Jews have, and that one could argue that it is more offensive to discriminate against groups such as Jews (and Bosniaks and Tutsis) that have suffered genocide. 'Other groups' is not in this sense 'all other groups'. I didn't realize grammatical ambiguity existed there; sorry.

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

He is, and that is not an atypical position among zionists sadly.

Oh? Do tell me more.

Well, the Israeli government was once a huge supporter of Apartheid, despite using the call of "Never again! Never again! Never again!" as their most commonly used defense of their territorial integrity.

The Israeli government, at different points in its history, was both an ally and a critic of the South African regime. In which it doesn't really differ much from other Western states (except in its collaboration with their nuclear program, which was admittedly a deplorable act). In any case, Israel denounced apartheid once and for all in 1987 (only one year after the US imposed sanctions, in 1986), and since then its government has changed completely; every high-profile politician from back then has retired, and of 120 Knesset members only 3 are still in office, who were all unimportant backbenchers in 1987. So it's rather bizarre to try to criticize modern Israeli policy by comparing it or trying to link it to apartheid (as many do).

It is frankly hypocritical, especially since Gaza is probably the world’s largest concentration camp right now (though launching rockets at Jewish preschools is not excusable and greatly discredits their cause.)

I could go into a lot of detail, but the concentration camps did not have self-government and they did not wage wars with neighboring states. That should be sufficient.

Don't mistake me for being anti-Israel, because I am a supporter of Israel's right to exist.

OK...

I am just annoyed by the often heard claim (at least down here in Florida, where the local Tea Party groups are mostly Jewish or Christian Zionist) that the Holocaust somehow is a more legitimate genocide and lends Israel a free hand to do anything it wants, despite the fact that Israel was not even an independent state at the time of the Nazi atrocities.

I don't know what you or anybody else means by 'legitimate genocide' (it reminds of Akin talking about 'legitimate rape', to be honest), and obviously the Holocaust doesn't give Israel the right to do whatever it wants. But any people has the right to try to avoid discrimination and genocide, and after the Second World War the Jewish people and the international community came to the conclusion that the best way to do this was by establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. The parameters, government, and foreign relations of the state came later. The Holocaust gave Israel the impetus for its founding, but it doesn't justify Israel's present actions -- which, for the most part, don't need any such exotic justifications.