Supreme Court bans juvenile executions

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A solid ruling.

Agreed.

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I find it funny liberals on here cry about how the younger have rights to privacy, speech, etc. And how those under 18 should be treated on the same level as adults. But when the topic of juvenile executions come up then they argue. You can't execute them, they are just CHILDREN who cant properly tell right from wrong.

I believe that younger people have rights, they can tell right from wrong, and that nobody, regardless of age, should be executed.  It's not that children can't properly tell right from wrong; it's that the government shouldn't be trying to end all violence and crime and then going off and killing people they deem guilty.  It's a double standard.

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.  In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.  But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.  When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.  At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.  Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”  “No one, sir,” she said.  “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” -- John 8:3-11

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This is one of the guys who was sentenced to death but now won’t get the death penalty because he was 17 at the time of the crime. Tell me he doesn’t deserve the death penalty.

Okay: he doesn't deserve the death penalty.

Advocates of the death penalty may as well be put to death for every sin they have committed.  Way to go, hypocrites.

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Um putting to death murderers is a double standard...how?

Two wrongs don't make a right.  Life isn't replaced by killing another person.

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This is one of the guys who was sentenced to death but now won’t get the death penalty because he was 17 at the time of the crime. Tell me he doesn’t deserve the death penalty.

Okay: he doesn't deserve the death penalty.

Advocates of the death penalty may as well be put to death for every sin they have committed.  Way to go, hypocrites.

You are f****** looney tunes!

Can you not comprehend the difference between the crime of a woman who commits adultery and a 17 year old who murders a woman and then buries her and her infant daughter while the child is still alive?

Yes, I can comprehend the difference.  The Law of Moses says that the death penalty is applicable for both; Jesus' message of peace which replaced it is apparently uncomprehensible to you.

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Um putting to death murderers is a double standard...how?

Two wrongs don't make a right.  Life isn't replaced by killing another person.

How is killing a murderer a second wrong?

It shows that you're stooping to the level of the murderer by reciprocating his sin, not showing any compassion or mercy whatsoever.

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Still not wrong. Just an unfortuante situation.

If you kill someone by mistake, that's not wrong?  It's become extremely obvious that your value on human life is absent, or badly misplaced!

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Still not wrong. Just an unfortuante situation.

If you kill someone by mistake, that's not wrong?  It's become extremely obvious that your value on human life is absent, or badly misplaced!

Also, I've just noticed a huge flaw: it's an "unfortunate situation" if capital punishment turns out flawed, but for the person who commits a murder, it's a crime punishable by death?  Think about it.

Sally goes out and brutally kills Jimmy.  What Sally did is wrong, and she must now be executed.

Alan goes out and brutally kills Joey.  But Alan frames Suzy, so Suzy gets executed.  That's not wrong.

Talk about a double standard.

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Nobody is innocent.  A person who kills one person could say, "But Adolf Hitler killed more than 5 million people, and I only killed one!  I'm innocent... in comparison."  No such thing as innocent.  We might as well just execute everyone.

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Because that would mean INNOCENT LIFE was killed, which you profess to care so deeply about.

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It isn't just the fact that someone died. It's that he was murdered. There was wrongdoing on the part of the murderer.

On September 11th, 2001, three thousand people died of terrorism.

And four thousand people died of food poisioning that year.

One could blame the poverty currently manifesting itself in America at the fault of Bush's disastrous administration.  Should Bush get the death penalty?

The fact that 4,000 people died of food poisoning in 2001 only serves to prove my point.  People die; there's no reason to execute them based on your ideas of right and wrong.  Yes, I agree murder is wrong, but if I were to murder someone for murdering someone else, then, under your system, someone would have to murder me.

Hey, what do I know, I'm "f****** looney tunes."

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You support life sentancing. Should everyone be thrown in jail for life, or are we allowed to distinguish between mass murder and stealing some kid's lunch money when you were 12?

We are allowed to distingish.  But murder isn't healed by murder.  Life sentences are superior to the death penalty because life is preserved.

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You dodged my question about accidental flaws in capital punishment.  Typical Republican.

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If you die because of poor safety standards, that is wrong, wrong on the part of those who put in the poor safety standards. Similarly it's wrong to put it an institution which can kill innocent people and only exists to satisfy blood lust.

Agreed.

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I thought we were talking about murder here. Apparently we're now talking about "the poverty currently manifesting itself in America." Tell me, are you related to opebo?

I detest opebo's posts.  His views on abortion, sex education, religion, and almost everything EXCEPT the death penalty leave a lot to be desired.  And hey, we WERE talking about murder, till you brought up the food poisoning.

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Nice oversimplification.

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Uh... excuse me?  Why bother in the first place?

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I know; I was quoting someone else.  That guy from Michigan.

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There are no 100% safety standards.

Just an hour or two ago someone on your side of the argument said it's far better to die than spend life in jail. Well, maybe to spare the innocent, we'd better execute them.

I don't agree with that person's argument.

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If baby killers had to recieve the death penalty, abortionists would be added to death row by the thousands.

I'll finish replying later; got to go.  Consider my post on hold.  :-P

[Ebowed]

Murder isn't healed by murder, but it is better met with execution than a prison cell.

I guess we'll just have to politely disagree on this one.

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You dodged this: "Because that would mean INNOCENT LIFE was killed, which you profess to care so deeply about," in regards to the accidental incorrect people executed in capital punishment, by saying that if you slip and crack your head, innocent life is also killed.  But that's nobody's fault; innocent people wrongly convicted through the death penalty are killed at the fault of the entire system.

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There are other ways of punishing, such as life sentencing, hard labor, and gun control.  No life is taken that way.

[qupte]Unless you think we need to lock people up for life over the food poisoning or leave al Qaeda alone, in which case, I suggest you hook up with Kucinich.

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No thanks; I used to think Kucinich was one of the best guys in Washington till he switched his stance on abortion to run for president.  *sigh*...

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Just because people die all the time doesn't mean it isn't worth much.

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Guilty people have rights, too.

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Ebowed,

Please don't use the bible to defend being anti death penalty. The words of Jesus, of which I strongly agree with, do not apply to the state as a whole. Jesus himself said that the state holds the right to "draw the sword" to punish criminals.

I did an online bible search (NIV) for "draw the sword" and found no such Scripture.  Can you point me to the Scripture please?

[Ebowed]

Ebowed,

Please don't use the bible to defend being anti death penalty. The words of Jesus, of which I strongly agree with, do not apply to the state as a whole. Jesus himself said that the state holds the right to "draw the sword" to punish criminals.

Thanks for posting the scripture, I will post my thoughts in a moment.

First let me say that Jesus himself was given the death penalty (and for being a liberal, no less), so the death penalty may need to be reconsidered as a whole when looked at that context.  Also many of my fellow Southerners who support capital punishment are the same who opposed anti-lynching bills in the 1950s.  Lynching has gone the way of New Coke now in the U.S., and the death penalty should too if we are to join other countries like New Zealand, Canada, Australia, and almost all of Europe.  America is the only English-speaking country where the death penalty is still used to my knowledge, and that's a bad reflection on us.

Though the Law of Moses permits the use of the death penalty, Cain, who killed Abel, was not killed for his murderous crime but rather became a wanderer, and given a mark by God that told nobody to kill him.  But then the law of Moses came around; Jesus replaced it with a message of peace (like that casting the first stone thing).

Now as to your Romans quote.  "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers.  For there is no power but of God..."  Well Jesus was God and he preached a pacifist message, and since he is the higher power Paul speaks of here we must "be subject unto" Jesus.

I believe using the king james version, which is tough to understand many times, is rather deceptive, so here's Romans 8:1-4 in NIV:

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

I see absolutely no reason for the death penalty usage in this passage.  I see it as one of the greatest arguments against it in the new testament.  In fact, it claims Jesus is a sin offering, and he was sent to meet the 'righteous requirements of the law' so that all could be saved by simple redemption, not meeting the strict requirements of Moses.  This Scripture makes the death penalty look anti-Christian, primitive, and ancient.

[Ebowed]

Ebowed,

Please don't use the bible to defend being anti death penalty. The words of Jesus, of which I strongly agree with, do not apply to the state as a whole. Jesus himself said that the state holds the right to "draw the sword" to punish criminals.

Thanks for posting the scripture, I will post my thoughts in a moment.

First let me say that Jesus himself was given the death penalty (and for being a liberal, no less), so the death penalty may need to be reconsidered as a whole when looked at that context.  Also many of my fellow Southerners who support capital punishment are the same who opposed anti-lynching bills in the 1950s.  Lynching has gone the way of New Coke now in the U.S., and the death penalty should too if we are to join other countries like New Zealand, Canada, Australia, and almost all of Europe.  America is the only English-speaking country where the death penalty is still used to my knowledge, and that's a bad reflection on us.

Though the Law of Moses permits the use of the death penalty, Cain, who killed Abel, was not killed for his murderous crime but rather became a wanderer, and given a mark by God that told nobody to kill him.  But then the law of Moses came around; Jesus replaced it with a message of peace (like that casting the first stone thing).

Now as to your Romans quote.  "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers.  For there is no power but of God..."  Well Jesus was God and he preached a pacifist message, and since he is the higher power Paul speaks of here we must "be subject unto" Jesus.

I believe using the king james version, which is tough to understand many times, is rather deceptive, so here's Romans 8:1-4 in NIV:

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

I see absolutely no reason for the death penalty usage in this passage.  I see it as one of the greatest arguments against it in the new testament.  In fact, it claims Jesus is a sin offering, and he was sent to meet the 'righteous requirements of the law' so that all could be saved by simple redemption, not meeting the strict requirements of Moses.  This Scripture makes the death penalty look anti-Christian, primitive, and ancient.

Well your points on here are so wrong its unbelievable. First off, Jesus was no "liberal" as you pointed out. He was a orthodox Jew and one of the biggest lies today is that Jesus was some how a big time liberal. After you said "NIV" I completely ignored the rest as the NIV is utter garbage.

Jesus was a "liberal," he preached a message of tolerance and peace that was not custom to the Jewish traditions of that time.  But never mind that, the fact remains that Jesus was given the death penalty.

How's the NIV garbage?  Would you prefer using King James because it is an old tradition?  That fits with your ideas about the death penalty.

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The NIV is a MODERN interpretation. I will take the biblical stance on that, "even if an angel were to come down and tell you something other then my scripture, let him be accursed".

The KJV is also a modern interpretation of the Greek and Hebrew scriptures, except that it's badly outdated to the NIV.  What's your point?

[Ebowed]

Ebowed, despite my strong opposition to the death penalty and slight distaste for StatesRights, I am inclined to agree with him on this issue. The troubles Christ was facing two thousand years ago cannot be translated into modern culture, as with everything else in the Bible.

I highly doubt StatesRights agrees with that statement.  He seems to just prefer KJV as the original Word of God, and since he's reading a permit of the death penalty in it he's not saying it can't be applied to modern culture.

[Ebowed]

Ebowed, despite my strong opposition to the death penalty and slight distaste for StatesRights, I am inclined to agree with him on this issue. The troubles Christ was facing two thousand years ago cannot be translated into modern culture, as with everything else in the Bible.

I highly doubt StatesRights agrees with that statement.  He seems to just prefer KJV as the original Word of God, and since he's reading a permit of the death penalty in it he's not saying it can't be applied to modern culture.

Show me any quote where Jesus says the death penalty should be strickly forbidden or banned?

1.) While not specific, John 8:3-11 gives a message of peace and forgiveness more than of stoning people for their sins.

2.) Show me any quote where Jesus says the death penalty should be used.

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Ebowed, despite my strong opposition to the death penalty and slight distaste for StatesRights, I am inclined to agree with him on this issue. The troubles Christ was facing two thousand years ago cannot be translated into modern culture, as with everything else in the Bible.

I highly doubt StatesRights agrees with that statement.  He seems to just prefer KJV as the original Word of God, and since he's reading a permit of the death penalty in it he's not saying it can't be applied to modern culture.

Show me any quote where Jesus says the death penalty should be strickly forbidden or banned?

1.) While not specific, John 8:3-11 gives a message of peace and forgiveness more than of stoning people for their sins.

2.) Show me any quote where Jesus says the death penalty should be used.

Explain "for the wages of sin is death"?

Just as it says, the wages of sin is death.  You go to hell, which is ultimate seperation from God.  Unless you repent through Jesus Christ, and then your sins are forgiven and you are 'born again.'

That statement isn't a commandment to use the death penalty either way.

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Show me any quote where Jesus says the death penalty should be strickly forbidden or banned?

1.) While not specific, John 8:3-11 gives a message of peace and forgiveness more than of stoning people for their sins.

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Should we just forgive all criminals and open the gates of the prisons?

Not necessarily, but lighter prison sentences would be good, let alone abolition of the death penalty.

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Argument error:  shifting burden of proof.  Don't.  Jesus never said I'm not allowed to eat ice cream, yet I'm reasonably sure He wouldn't object.  The burden of proof is on YOU.
[/quote]Ice cream is not equal to the death penalty; hopefully you can distinguish between the two, because not every issue is black and white.  Jesus never said to use the death penalty; his message preaches the opposite.  There's my proof, and then I'll ask for proof in your favor.  Did Jesus every say to use the death penalty?  Did he?

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Ebowed would you support forced hard labor, like slavery, over the death penalty?

Hard labor for a crime is not the same as slavery.......

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Not necessarily, but lighter prison sentences would be good, let alone abolition of the death penalty.

Like, 1 year for a rape, 6 months for a murderer, 2 weeks for kidnapping...

Yeah I can see that work real well in society.  We should just all forgive and forget, like Jesus ordererd.

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Yes.  God ordered the execution of people for certain crimes.

Name every crime that God ordered execution for in the New Testament, as the Law of Moses was replaced by Jesus.