The first election in which the D was left-wing and the R was right-wing
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  The first election in which the D was left-wing and the R was right-wing
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Author Topic: The first election in which the D was left-wing and the R was right-wing  (Read 10466 times)
BaconBacon96
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« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2014, 09:06:21 PM »

1872 was the first election when the Democrats were more left-wing on economics. After 1896 an economically right-wing Democrat became the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'd say on social issues the Democrats were not more liberal until the 1950's.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2014, 09:36:03 PM »

1872 was the first election when the Democrats were more left-wing on economics. After 1896 an economically right-wing Democrat became the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'd say on social issues the Democrats were not more liberal until the 1950's.

Ugh. . . . . . Al Smith?
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morgieb
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« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2014, 01:41:17 AM »

Who was the Democrat in 1872?
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2014, 11:26:38 AM »

By the standards of the time in each election, I'd say 1896.  By today's standards, I'm not so sure.
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MATTROSE94
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« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2014, 12:32:25 PM »

Horace Greeley ran under both the Democratic and Liberal Republican banner in the 1872 election. Interestingly, he died shortly after the election.
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BaconBacon96
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« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2014, 04:15:37 PM »

1872 was the first election when the Democrats were more left-wing on economics. After 1896 an economically right-wing Democrat became the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'd say on social issues the Democrats were not more liberal until the 1950's.

Ugh. . . . . . Al Smith?
Well he's an exception to that rule.
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FEMA Camp Administrator
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« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2014, 03:09:46 PM »

1872 was the first election when the Democrats were more left-wing on economics. After 1896 an economically right-wing Democrat became the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'd say on social issues the Democrats were not more liberal until the 1950's.

The Republicans have always had a puritan streak of sorts, and the whole Bryan episode was much more a fluke than an overall indicator of where the Democratic party stood. Now, you can argue whether that puritan streak was a force for conservatism or progressivism, but it was there.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2014, 06:55:23 AM »

The Puritan streak was a force for both at the same time. Prohibition was considered "Progressive".

I disagree on the Bryan episode though. It changed the Party, his efforts brought Wilson to the nomination.

You must remember that many of the 1920's nominees were last minutes selections after heated battles between South and West versus North and Midwest, Progressive versus Bourbon, dry versus wet and Pro-KKK versus Anti-KKK. So one should hardly use them as representative of the party.
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Bojack Horseman
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« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2014, 01:35:40 PM »

I'd say 1972.
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Fed. Pac. Chairman Devin
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« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2014, 01:46:38 AM »

I am pretty sure it is a myth that Republicans were Liberal.Plus hasn't the definition of the word Liberal changed in the last 200 years?
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2014, 02:53:25 AM »

These terms were not really used on a regular basis until the Cold War.
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buritobr
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« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2014, 05:31:22 PM »

I am pretty sure it is a myth that Republicans were Liberal.Plus hasn't the definition of the word Liberal changed in the last 200 years?

In the US: Liberal = Left-wing

Outside the US: Liberal = Right-wing, pro free-market
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SWE
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« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2014, 08:21:13 AM »

1896
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2014, 07:01:26 PM »

This will upset those living in liberal fantasy land, but on fiscal issues it was 1856.  Period.  The GOP has always been a pro-business party, and I honestly find it 100% revisionist and biased to call defending slavery (as Southern Democrats did) socially conservative and trying to tie that to conservatism of today, while also completely ignoring that some of the fiercest abolitionists were from devoutly conservative Christian denominations like the Quakers.  The Second Great Awakening and the explosion of moralism that followed (something Democrats still mock Republicans for today) did a heck of a lot more to advance anti-slavery sentiment than this revisionist notion that the charge was led by these intellectual progressives of the day.  When you throw in that the other main group that opposed slavery was the Northern business community, which argued it interfered with the ideal of a free market with free labor, it doesn't sound liberal or left wing at all to me ... I guess if you repeat something loud enough and often enough, it becomes accepted as truth.
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Mordecai
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« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2014, 02:19:56 AM »
« Edited: April 16, 2014, 05:23:57 AM by Mordecai »

I am pretty sure it is a myth that Republicans were Liberal.Plus hasn't the definition of the word Liberal changed in the last 200 years?

In the US: Liberal = Left-wing

Outside the US: Liberal = Right-wing, pro free-market

Yeah in Australia our right-wing party is called the Liberal Party and the word "liberal" is used either in reference to the party or to classical liberalism.
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NerdyBohemian
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« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2014, 12:30:25 PM »
« Edited: April 16, 2014, 12:33:21 PM by NerdyBohemian »

This will upset those living in liberal fantasy land, but on fiscal issues it was 1856.  Period.  The GOP has always been a pro-business party, and I honestly find it 100% revisionist and biased to call defending slavery (as Southern Democrats did) socially conservative and trying to tie that to conservatism of today, while also completely ignoring that some of the fiercest abolitionists were from devoutly conservative Christian denominations like the Quakers.  The Second Great Awakening and the explosion of moralism that followed (something Democrats still mock Republicans for today) did a heck of a lot more to advance anti-slavery sentiment than this revisionist notion that the charge was led by these intellectual progressives of the day.  When you throw in that the other main group that opposed slavery was the Northern business community, which argued it interfered with the ideal of a free market with free labor, it doesn't sound liberal or left wing at all to me ... I guess if you repeat something loud enough and often enough, it becomes accepted as truth.

There's some degree of truth to this, however, the Republican Party in the mid-19th century was composed of numerous factions. Some of them favoring a "small" government and an agrarian based economy. They were against a central bank, tariffs, and hell even a national currency. These were called the liberal Republicans and contained a lot of ex-Democrats. The other wing consisted of ex-Whigs who favored a central bank, corporate welfare and protectionism through tariffs.

You're correct in saying the Republican Party was always the party of big business (and those weren't often formed splinter groups such as Roosevelt's Bull Moose Party La Follette's progressives) and  because the Democratic base for much of the 19th century were farmers and later a coalition of rural farmers and urban labor machines. Hardly the people you'd expect to support a party of big business. You're also correct in saying that people's religious beliefs via the Second Great Awakening were a main driving force behind the abolition movement.

For some local context, one of the reasons Rhode Island was such a bastion of the Republican Party in the 19th and early 20th century was due to it being a very wealthy industrialized state with numerous corporations in Providence.
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m4567
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« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2014, 06:18:08 PM »
« Edited: April 17, 2014, 07:20:40 AM by m4567 »

From a modern standpoint, probably 1936. When you're talking overall modern, probably 1964.
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m4567
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« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2014, 06:24:19 PM »
« Edited: April 17, 2014, 06:51:03 AM by m4567 »

The Second Great Awakening and the explosion of moralism that followed (something Democrats still mock Republicans for today)

That's kind of generalizing.

There's actually a good amount of moden democrats who are christian. Even  more liberals than you would think.

Of course, most things in politics are subjective.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2014, 06:26:56 PM »

The Second Great Awakening and the explosion of moralism that followed (something Democrats still mock Republicans for today)

That's kind of generalizing. There's actually a lot of moden democrats who are christian. Even  more liberals than you would think.

Yes, like THE REVEREND Jesse Jackson or THE REVEREND Al Sharpton.
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Tieteobserver
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« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2014, 06:48:45 PM »

Cleveland marked the last time when the Democratic ticket was reliably right-wing at the national level. After that it was, nationally speaking, at most as far to the right as the GOP.

However, up until the 1960s, both parties polarized much more along ethnic and regional lines than ideological ones. Basically, Northeastern WASPs were as Republican as one can be, whilst Southern WASPery and the ethnic Whites in the Northeast were heavily Democratic.
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Matty
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« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2014, 08:53:49 PM »

I would say the Republican party was always been more "conservative" than the democratic party, but it is SO tough to answer this question, for the nature of political parties were so different in the 19th century. Both were huge tents with a ton of factions. Today, there is a coherent ideology for both parties. Some constants, however, are these:

1) Republicans have always been the party of business and the rich.

2) Democrats have always been the party of the "working man".

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Sol
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« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2014, 10:33:01 PM »

This will upset those living in liberal fantasy land, but on fiscal issues it was 1856.  Period.  The GOP has always been a pro-business party, and I honestly find it 100% revisionist and biased to call defending slavery (as Southern Democrats did) socially conservative and trying to tie that to conservatism of today, while also completely ignoring that some of the fiercest abolitionists were from devoutly conservative Christian denominations like the Quakers.  The Second Great Awakening and the explosion of moralism that followed (something Democrats still mock Republicans for today) did a heck of a lot more to advance anti-slavery sentiment than this revisionist notion that the charge was led by these intellectual progressives of the day.  When you throw in that the other main group that opposed slavery was the Northern business community, which argued it interfered with the ideal of a free market with free labor, it doesn't sound liberal or left wing at all to me ... I guess if you repeat something loud enough and often enough, it becomes accepted as truth.

There's some degree of truth to this, however, the Republican Party in the mid-19th century was composed of numerous factions. Some of them favoring a "small" government and an agrarian based economy. They were against a central bank, tariffs, and hell even a national currency. These were called the liberal Republicans and contained a lot of ex-Democrats. The other wing consisted of ex-Whigs who favored a central bank, corporate welfare and protectionism through tariffs.

You're correct in saying the Republican Party was always the party of big business (and those weren't often formed splinter groups such as Roosevelt's Bull Moose Party La Follette's progressives) and  because the Democratic base for much of the 19th century were farmers and later a coalition of rural farmers and urban labor machines. Hardly the people you'd expect to support a party of big business. You're also correct in saying that people's religious beliefs via the Second Great Awakening were a main driving force behind the abolition movement.

For some local context, one of the reasons Rhode Island was such a bastion of the Republican Party in the 19th and early 20th century was due to it being a very wealthy industrialized state with numerous corporations in Providence.

Also, part of it may have been that RI didn't have universal white male suffrage until quite late - long after even the Dorr rebellion.
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Meursault
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« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2014, 10:37:30 PM »

For a very long time, 'big business' was the driving force behind the left - or, at least, the liberal bourgeois class.

This is Marxism 101. What socioeconomic force can oppose agrarianism and its remnants, including chattel slavery? Capitalists.
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Matty
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« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2014, 09:21:10 PM »

1984 might be the answer socially, though. Before 1984, evangelical protestants voted democrat in almost every national election.
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jfern
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« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2014, 09:26:04 PM »

1896, duh.
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