The Syria Resolution

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

The current draft of the resolution is getting criticized for not being restrictive enough.  *gulp*

It should be criticized for that, no?

Yeah, which is why we have more reason to worry if it passes.

[Ogre Mage]

The U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee has crafted a draft AUMF:

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I still don't think it has been sufficiently proven, at least to the public, that Assad gave the order to use chemical weapons.  If we could prove that, the above resolution sounds like something I could live with.

[Eraserhead]

They pretty clearly don't know whether or not Assad himself ordered the weapons to be used.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

So at the end of the day, I suppose this is what we know and what we don't know:

• We know that Kerry doesn't want to take boots-on-the-ground off the table (probably won't happen, but we can't predict if or how the situation will escalate if Congress authorizes the attack)
• We don't know whether Assad himself ordered the bombings
• We don't know what the game plan will be after military intervention takes place and if Assad is ousted as a result
• We don't know how Assad would respond to Western intervention, though he hasn't voiced any intentions of backing down
• We don't know for sure what the administration's long-term goals are.  Kerry insists war isn't what Obama's asking for, but we can only take that with a grain of salt.

Still too many we-don't-know's for me to support this.

[Lief 🗽]

They pretty clearly don't know whether or not Assad himself ordered the weapons to be used.

I'm not sure why that matters? He's still responsible. And it's public knowledge that the Syrian army has been using chemical weapons (but against rebel fighters) for months now, presumably with his blessing.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

It will pass the Senate and maybe even the house. Both sides are falling in line. Even if it doesn't, I think Obama will strike anyway, which I like. It's beginning to remind me of my boy dubya.

[J. J.]

They pretty clearly don't know whether or not Assad himself ordered the weapons to be used.

I'm not sure why that matters? He's still responsible. And it's public knowledge that the Syrian army has been using chemical weapons (but against rebel fighters) for months now, presumably with his blessing.

It does matter.  If there was some commander in the field who took it on himself, it becomes problematic.

Part of the plan is to degrade Assad's command and control functions.  Do you really want a few other field commanders to decide to launch them since they can't get orders? 

[Lief 🗽]

They pretty clearly don't know whether or not Assad himself ordered the weapons to be used.

I'm not sure why that matters? He's still responsible. And it's public knowledge that the Syrian army has been using chemical weapons (but against rebel fighters) for months now, presumably with his blessing.

It does matter.  If there was some commander in the field who took it on himself, it becomes problematic.

Part of the plan is to degrade Assad's command and control functions.  Do you really want a few other field commanders to decide to launch them since they can't get orders? 

If it was an accident or done by some rogue general then Assad should have publicly apologized for it and punished the rogue general. But he hasn't, because he probably gave the order, and even if he didn't, his lack of response is implicit approval.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Yeah, Assad clearly did it. I'm not going to sit here and think it was some mistake by someone else. Assad certainly isn't out there trying to make that seem like it's the case.

[Lief 🗽]

Even if it doesn't, I think Obama will strike anyway, which I like.

Yup, like I said in the other thread (or maybe this one, iunno), he should have the missile and planes in place and ready to go, and order them to attack the minute the House vote is complete, regardless of the outcome.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Considering the way Assad normally deals with dissent if it was a rouge officer who ordered it then said rogue officer would be gunned to pieces within hours. Has that happened yet?

[J. J.]

Considering the way Assad normally deals with dissent if it was a rouge officer who ordered it then said rogue officer would be gunned to pieces within hours. Has that happened yet?

Something tells me that Assad is not on Twitter.

There has been some suggestion that it was not authorized by Assad.  That is one of the reasons why I think this is problematic.  If this was a command and control problem, the one thing we don't want to do is make it worse. 

[Eraserhead]

Considering the way Assad normally deals with dissent if it was a rouge officer who ordered it then said rogue officer would be gunned to pieces within hours. Has that happened yet?

Would we necessarily know if it had?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

A Pew Research Poll suggests support for military action in Syria is at 29%. That's about the percentage of Americans who supported the Vietnam War ... in 1971.

I cannot fathom how a military action can take place with such low support.

Obama might not care much about the numbers, MM, but as Frodo notes, with those low numbers Congress isn't going to sanction it.

[J. J.]

It will pass the Senate and maybe even the house. Both sides are falling in line. Even if it doesn't, I think Obama will strike anyway, which I like. It's beginning to remind me of my boy dubya.

Just to be clear, I think Obama has the constitutional authority to strike.  I think it is a bad decision in this case.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It will pass the Senate and maybe even the house. Both sides are falling in line. Even if it doesn't, I think Obama will strike anyway, which I like. It's beginning to remind me of my boy dubya.

It does remind me of Dubya, which I hate.  I favor striking Assad's regime, but if Congress does not authorize it, we should not strike.  And if Obama authorizes the use of force anyway, he should be impeached, even tho I know there's no chance he'd be convicted.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

It will pass the Senate and maybe even the house. Both sides are falling in line. Even if it doesn't, I think Obama will strike anyway, which I like. It's beginning to remind me of my boy dubya.

It does remind me of Dubya, which I hate.  I favor striking Assad's regime, but if Congress does not authorize it, we should not strike.  And if Obama authorizes the use of force anyway, he should be impeached, even tho I know there's no chance he'd be convicted.

Ernest, do you really think it will pass the House?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It will pass the Senate and maybe even the house. Both sides are falling in line. Even if it doesn't, I think Obama will strike anyway, which I like. It's beginning to remind me of my boy dubya.

It does remind me of Dubya, which I hate.  I favor striking Assad's regime, but if Congress does not authorize it, we should not strike.  And if Obama authorizes the use of force anyway, he should be impeached, even tho I know there's no chance he'd be convicted.

Ernest, do you really think it will pass the House?

Don't know, but since Obama's been signaling that as far as he's concerned this is all theatre and he'll do what he wants anyway, I'm not worrying about counting how many chickenhawks will hatch in Congress.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

It will pass the Senate and maybe even the house. Both sides are falling in line. Even if it doesn't, I think Obama will strike anyway, which I like. It's beginning to remind me of my boy dubya.

It does remind me of Dubya, which I hate.  I favor striking Assad's regime, but if Congress does not authorize it, we should not strike.  And if Obama authorizes the use of force anyway, he should be impeached, even tho I know there's no chance he'd be convicted.

Ernest, do you really think it will pass the House?

Don't know, but since Obama's been signaling that as far as he's concerned this is all theatre and he'll do what he wants anyway, I'm not worrying about counting how many chickenhawks will hatch in Congress.

I'm going to change my tune and bet he backs down without Congressional approval.

[King]

Defeated in the House and passes in the Senate, because this is America.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Report: McCain Says He Won’t Support Senate’s Syria Resolution

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Report: McCain Says He Won’t Support Senate’s Syria Resolution

Didn't he vote for it in Cmte today?

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Report: McCain Says He Won’t Support Senate’s Syria Resolution

Didn't he vote for it in Cmte today?

Ah, it appears he flopped after the Committee adopted an amendment.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Report: McCain Says He Won’t Support Senate’s Syria Resolution

He must not have heard any good evidence presented at the hearing. Which isn't surprising considering that he spent the whole f-ing time playing poker on his smartphone.