Official Petition to Call a Constitutional Convention
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Author Topic: Official Petition to Call a Constitutional Convention  (Read 6286 times)
Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2014, 09:22:19 PM »

I oppose this idea and fully agree with Yankee's above post. Con Cons in the past haven't been especially interesting. Alas.

This is the opportunity to actually change this into something that is more interesting. So, because previous efforts weren't interesting, we should just deal with the game as it is. A permanent stagnate pool of transitory players who debate minor issues and amend old legislation for as long as we can make it exist?

I believe it's essential we have a ConCon and yes a complete restart. We preserve the history and start a new story.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2014, 09:26:04 PM »

I oppose this idea and fully agree with Yankee's above post. Con Cons in the past haven't been especially interesting. Alas.

This is the opportunity to actually change this into something that is more interesting. So, because previous efforts weren't interesting, we should just deal with the game as it is. A permanent stagnate pool of transitory players who debate minor issues and amend old legislation for as long as we can make it exist?

I believe it's essential we have a ConCon and yes a complete restart. We preserve the history and start a new story.

Do you think for a second there's a chance of broad agreement on what a complete restart would consist of?
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2014, 09:31:04 PM »

I oppose this idea and fully agree with Yankee's above post. Con Cons in the past haven't been especially interesting. Alas.

This is the opportunity to actually change this into something that is more interesting. So, because previous efforts weren't interesting, we should just deal with the game as it is. A permanent stagnate pool of transitory players who debate minor issues and amend old legislation for as long as we can make it exist?

I believe it's essential we have a ConCon and yes a complete restart. We preserve the history and start a new story.

Do you think for a second there's a chance of broad agreement on what a complete restart would consist of?

I'm not saying I would get my way. But anything is better than this.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2014, 09:35:34 PM »

I oppose this idea and fully agree with Yankee's above post. Con Cons in the past haven't been especially interesting. Alas.

This is the opportunity to actually change this into something that is more interesting. So, because previous efforts weren't interesting, we should just deal with the game as it is. A permanent stagnate pool of transitory players who debate minor issues and amend old legislation for as long as we can make it exist?

I believe it's essential we have a ConCon and yes a complete restart. We preserve the history and start a new story.

Do you think for a second there's a chance of broad agreement on what a complete restart would consist of?

I'm not saying I would get my way. But anything is better than this.

The thing is that I've literally seen this movie before. The Purple State ConCon was important, necessary and useful, but it fell far short of the massive reformation of the game that people expected. I expect this one, if it happens, may end up consolidating some laws and neatening up the wiki, but don't expect any radical changes, if only for the reason that most players are American and want to be President or Senator.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2014, 10:09:42 PM »

I oppose this idea and fully agree with Yankee's above post. Con Cons in the past haven't been especially interesting. Alas.

This is the opportunity to actually change this into something that is more interesting. So, because previous efforts weren't interesting, we should just deal with the game as it is. A permanent stagnate pool of transitory players who debate minor issues and amend old legislation for as long as we can make it exist?

I believe it's essential we have a ConCon and yes a complete restart. We preserve the history and start a new story.

Do you think for a second there's a chance of broad agreement on what a complete restart would consist of?

I'm not saying I would get my way. But anything is better than this.

The thing is that I've literally seen this movie before. The Purple State ConCon was important, necessary and useful, but it fell far short of the massive reformation of the game that people expected. I expect this one, if it happens, may end up consolidating some laws and neatening up the wiki, but don't expect any radical changes, if only for the reason that most players are American and want to be President or Senator.

Well then we keep trying. I don't think it's enough to say, well, it didn't work this time, so let's just leave it the way it is. It's really a question as to whether or not people can accept that this is in fact a game and the purpose of a game is enjoyment and when it stops being enjoyable and turns into tedium, then you know it's time to change.

I probably won't get my way on a full restart and a whole new nation. But I feel it necessary to fight for.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2014, 10:21:20 PM »

I really think you're exaggerating the situation. The game in its current state isn't terribly exciting but it's hardly reached the level of absolute tedium. If we want to make it more interesting, the only thing we can do is try and increase activity, and I don't see what a new constitution has to offer on that front. Even if a parliamentary system were a likely outcome of a constitutional convention, how would that increase activity or make the game more interesting? If you want to reboot the legislative statute that's one thing, but a constitutional convention isn't really a necessary or efficient way of accomplishing that aim.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2014, 11:13:50 PM »

I really think you're exaggerating the situation. The game in its current state isn't terribly exciting but it's hardly reached the level of absolute tedium. If we want to make it more interesting, the only thing we can do is try and increase activity, and I don't see what a new constitution has to offer on that front. Even if a parliamentary system were a likely outcome of a constitutional convention, how would that increase activity or make the game more interesting? If you want to reboot the legislative statute that's one thing, but a constitutional convention isn't really a necessary or efficient way of accomplishing that aim.

Well, what would you do then? I'd like to hear a plan to make the game more interesting. How can we increase activity if nothing interesting is going on? See, it's a vicious cycle. A restart would be something new. Something that could increase activity. If it doesn't lead to a parliamentary system, so be it. Just because it's the one I support doesn't mean that's necessarily how it will go. But my god, the Senate and the regions do indeed reach tedious levels when we have to constantly go through the books and amend or repeal old legislation. Part of that, I think maybe the GM system that we have where we go a long time without any particularly interesting news stories and often the news scenarios are impersonal and bland.

There's a lot that can be done with a new country. We can give the game a shot in the arm and increase activity by actually providing people with something new to sink their teeth into.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2014, 12:29:41 AM »

I wouldn't oppose a ConCon, but I doubt it will solve any activity issues. ConCons simply don't get people especially excited aside from the policy wonks. Marokai and I briefly considered one back in Feb 2013, but ultimately decided against it.

If we feel we do need a new constitution though, then we should go for it. I will be long gone when we come to this issue though, so have at it. Tongue
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shua
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« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2014, 01:28:36 AM »

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The written law is vague. Therefore, I am calling an official petition, in which I hope the majority of citizens from each region shall sign.

In the hopes of a Fourth Constitution of Atlasia!

x TyrionTheImperialist

Do these regulations exist?

I will need to know something about the ConCon process before I sign on to this.
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President Tyrion
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« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2014, 03:05:40 AM »

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The written law is vague. Therefore, I am calling an official petition, in which I hope the majority of citizens from each region shall sign.

In the hopes of a Fourth Constitution of Atlasia!

x TyrionTheImperialist

Do these regulations exist?

I will need to know something about the ConCon process before I sign on to this.

No, I don't think so. We, as Senators, should change that.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2014, 10:10:05 AM »

Here's another way to say it. Look, I don't think that a new constitution will create more activity anymore than a new edition of the NFL Rule Book would bring more people out to play football. It's silly to think that.

The constitution is old, cluttered, and in places contradictory or vague. If nothing else, we can clean all that up and maybe, just maybe use the process to create a new government and a new game. So the worst is we get a cleaner, tighter constitution out of it.

Hey, folks, I've been in the Pacific. I've stood by that region. Do you know how many people in the last six months have come and gone? Tons. It's because they get bored and there's minimal activity. The nature of the game appeals to them, but it's just boring. Tongue

Ultimately, if people don't want the change, we won't have it, but keep an open mind and keep on keepin' on, people.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #61 on: May 19, 2014, 03:53:54 PM »

Consider this though. The reasons Purple/Blue succeeded was because they started there con-con with a clear vision of how and what was to be done in it and kept it focused.

On the other hand a constitution convention of the sorts that would likely be produced would likely end up like 2009, which I think Adam has already conceded the likelihood of when he stated he ws in for the ideas it would generate as opposed to the actual results of the convention (the end product). Considering this is starting out like 2009 more so then 2010, that is probably the best approach to take.

If you want a Purple-Blue result, then you might want to start off with that goal in mind. One thing is for sure, the mere divide in objectives desired to be attained will ensure failure if nothing else.

Think of it like this. In real life, most all of the convention delegates went to Philadelphia acknowledging the weaknesses of the ARticles of Confederation and desired to acheive a stronger central gov't that could better protect itself both from foreig nand domestic threats. Those that were unsure about whether or not to scrap the articles entirely basically came to that conclusion after the first weeks. Essentially from the beginning, they knew what was desired and it merely was a matter of fighting out the details between big and small, north and south and so forth.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2014, 03:56:48 PM »

I really think you're exaggerating the situation. The game in its current state isn't terribly exciting but it's hardly reached the level of absolute tedium. If we want to make it more interesting, the only thing we can do is try and increase activity, and I don't see what a new constitution has to offer on that front. Even if a parliamentary system were a likely outcome of a constitutional convention, how would that increase activity or make the game more interesting? If you want to reboot the legislative statute that's one thing, but a constitutional convention isn't really a necessary or efficient way of accomplishing that aim.

Since 2009, when that convention was crashing and burning, I have made the case that primary means of increasing activity must necessarily be a bottom up process and attempts to legislate or reform it into existance will surely fail. Switching systems is a trade-off, functional improvements are just that and "Stirring things up" only lasts a short while whereas the traded-off consequences could be long lasting.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2014, 07:53:06 PM »

I really think you're exaggerating the situation. The game in its current state isn't terribly exciting but it's hardly reached the level of absolute tedium. If we want to make it more interesting, the only thing we can do is try and increase activity, and I don't see what a new constitution has to offer on that front. Even if a parliamentary system were a likely outcome of a constitutional convention, how would that increase activity or make the game more interesting? If you want to reboot the legislative statute that's one thing, but a constitutional convention isn't really a necessary or efficient way of accomplishing that aim.

Well, what would you do then? I'd like to hear a plan to make the game more interesting. How can we increase activity if nothing interesting is going on? See, it's a vicious cycle. A restart would be something new. Something that could increase activity. If it doesn't lead to a parliamentary system, so be it. Just because it's the one I support doesn't mean that's necessarily how it will go. But my god, the Senate and the regions do indeed reach tedious levels when we have to constantly go through the books and amend or repeal old legislation. Part of that, I think maybe the GM system that we have where we go a long time without any particularly interesting news stories and often the news scenarios are impersonal and bland.

There's a lot that can be done with a new country. We can give the game a shot in the arm and increase activity by actually providing people with something new to sink their teeth into.
As far as my "plan" goes, I pretty much agree with Yankee. I'm not really sure how we can increase activity by legislative fiat. You can't force people to be more active. In the end, the only way we're going to see a meaningful increase in activity is if more people take an active interest in the game.

Also, how many delegates would attend this convention? This just seems like it would just lead to even less activity than currently exists by putting the game on lockdown mode in which only a set number of players (the delegates) can participate.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #64 on: May 19, 2014, 08:09:12 PM »

About 15 or 20 and the game continues as is until they actually manage to pass something and then get it ratified.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #65 on: May 19, 2014, 08:10:02 PM »

Though it would certainl pull people's attention off other projects in various structures like the Senate and regional legislatures if a lot of them are also delegates.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2014, 07:02:23 AM »
« Edited: June 07, 2014, 07:05:52 AM by Sen. Griffin (LAB-NB) »

#justbumpin'

(Updated) Signatures Obtained/Required by Region:

Northeast - 12/22 (55%)
Pacific - 7/15 (47%)
Midwest - 6/16 (38%)
IDS - 4/15 (27%)
Mideast - 2/23 (9%)
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BaconBacon96
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« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2014, 07:26:37 PM »

X BaconBacon96
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Supersonic
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« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2014, 08:58:50 AM »

x Supersonic
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bore
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« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2014, 01:30:13 PM »

Bumping again

(Updated) Signatures Obtained/Required by Region:

Northeast - 13/22 (59%)
Pacific - 7/15 (47%)
Midwest - 6/16 (38%)
IDS - 5/15 (33%)
Mideast - 2/23 (9%)
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shua
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« Reply #70 on: June 15, 2014, 10:28:05 PM »

I'm not sure how much I trust the Senate to come up with good process for this, but we are desperate for it so:

x shua
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Pingvin
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« Reply #71 on: June 16, 2014, 12:20:58 AM »

Let's do this.
x Pingvin
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #72 on: June 16, 2014, 12:26:37 AM »

Retracting my signature.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #73 on: June 16, 2014, 01:02:47 PM »

Goddammit, Midwest, get your act together.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2014, 03:37:37 PM »

Bumping this again

(Updated) Signatures Obtained/Required by Region:

NE - 13 / 20 (65%)
PRP - 7 / 15 (47%)
IDS - 6 / 13 (46%)
MW - 6 / 14 (43%)
ME - 3 / 23 (13%)
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