SC Gov Mark Sanford

[Ebowed]

In the meantime, bringing forward the governor of South Carolina will be a huge sign to the rest of the country that, inspite of having tons of great candidates from all over the country, we went with this guy, because he plays well with Evangelical Southerners.

What kind of message does that send?

It tells me that we are not a National Party.

So it's okay for a candidate to be from a swing state like Pennsylvania, but if there's a Southern candidate it makes for a non-National Party?

What I am saying is that we need to get out of the south in order to be seen as legit to the country.  We can't be the party of the south.

Yeah, screw that little POS region of the country

No, I'm not saying that.  In fact, I don't know what you are worried about.

George W. Bush: White Protestant male from Texas

Bill Clinton: White Protestant male from Texas

Al Gore:  White Protestant male from Tennesse

Bob Dole: White Protestant male from Kansas

George H. W. Bush: White Protestant male from Texas

Jimmy Carter: White Protestant male from Gerogia

Maybe it is time to let some other people in?

Ahem.  Clinton was from Arkansas last time I checked.  I don't consider Kansas Southern; that's Midwestern if anything else.  Guess you aren't counting Ferraro, Mondale, McGovern, Quayle, Lieberman, Kerry, Humphrey, etc.....

[The Duke]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

In how many elections since 1860 has a candidate won more than 55% of the vote:

1864 - Lincoln gets 55.02%  (half of country doesn't vote)
1872 - Grant gets 55.63% (helped by disenfranchising Confederates)
1904 - Roosevelt gets 56.42%  (popular prez.)
1920 - Harding gets 60.32% (return to normalcy)
1928 - Hoover gets 58.21% (chicken in every pot)
1932 - Roosevelt gets 57.41% (Great Depression)
1936 - Roosevelt gets 60.80% (height of his popularity)
1952 - Eisenhower gets 55.18% (Korean War)
1956 - Eisenhower gets 57.37% (Ike popular, incompetent challenger)
1964 - Johnson gets 61.05% (Kennedy ass., Goldwater bad candidate)
1972 - Nixon gets 60.67% (McGovern bad candidate)
1984 - Reagan gets 58.77% (Reagan popular)

I count 12 out 37 times a candidate has gotten more than 55% of the vote.  National margins and parties are an anomaly, not to be expected very often.

Still 2.46% is one of the narrowest margins ever, and in in fact the narrowest for a sucessful re-election.
Also, you can't call 1924 a close election.

[Ebowed]

1964 - Johnson gets 61.05% (Kennedy ass., Goldwater bad candidate)
1972 - Nixon gets 60.67% (McGovern bad candidate)

I don't think McGovern or Goldwater were bad candidates.  McGovern was the victim of a mean conservative media; Goldwater may have been extreme for his day but hey, he was honest.

[So the Heroes Fall]

Jfern,

We're all partisan her, but you're a total hack.

It should be obvious to anyone non-partisan who pays attention that Condi Rice is a major league liar.

It should be also be obvious to anyone non-partisan that she would never be mentioned if she wasn't a black woman anyway. Her and Gonzales are the reasons conservatives should never whine about affirmative action, not to mention earlier I frequently heard Republicans basically say "Democrats should not oppose Rice because she is black and thus should be allowed to have any job she wants. Democrats should not oppose Gonzales because he is Hispanic and thus should be able to have any job he wants."

Just hypocrisy.

[12th Doctor]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

Ferraro was an unknown VP candidate running against a well established incumbent.  You couldn't have thought of a worse example.

Oh, yeah, and John Kerry seemed really ethnic and Catholic to me.

To people in this country, it's all white. I'd laugh at anyone who'd honestly think I would be more prone to support someone for any campaign just because they were a Scandinavian Lutheran, which is just as "ethnic" as everyone you listed.

No it isn't.  Obviously you have never been to the Polaski or the Litz Club.

I do believe Jack Chick is an isolated loon on account of the fact that I have never met anyone who likes him period, and this includes times in the past when I have trolled conservative message boards. Not to mention anyone who trulely believes the garbage he writes but be seriously mentally deficient since there's so many holes in it its not even funny, the classic Dungeons and Dragons tract is a prime example. You basically are claiming that the vast majority of Protestants agree with Jack Chick on Catholics, which is just hilarious.

They might not agree with Chick, which I never said, but they still believe a lot of stuff that is laughable (or sad, depending) non-the-less

You claim that I believe a lot of lies I've been told by my mom, but I have never said Catholics aren't Christian, and neither has she. And she voted for the same Catholic in November as I did. Sheesh, you're making Pennsylvania sound like some third world country full of ethnic strife, when it's just as diverse as Minnesota, which has nothing of the sort you're describing.

Thankfully, I don't need you to believe me to know that I am right.  I never seem to recall accusing you, or even all Protestants of anything either.  But if you deny that there isn't a strong vain of anti-Catholic bias in this country... well it is always easy to not notice these things when they aren't happening to you.

Why don't you ask Al about how popular Ian Paisley is and whether he gets overwhelming support from most British Protestants too by the way. I have to say I doubt there's much since I have never met a Brit who doesn't consider him a complete lunatic.

I don't remember talking about Britian.

[Ebowed]

Yes yes BRTD, when you consider that Republicans make a big deal out of Democrats for opposing black/Hispanic nominees, you wonder why Republicans oppose affirmative action

[So the Heroes Fall]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

so what the hell does this have to do with ethnicity then? There's plenty of Irish and Italian Catholic folks who have opebo-esque lifestyles (hell, look at Flyers), and I bet there are plenty of German Catholics here who despite supposedly being closer to other whites than the people listed above who are Opus Dei nutcases.

[12th Doctor]

In the meantime, bringing forward the governor of South Carolina will be a huge sign to the rest of the country that, inspite of having tons of great candidates from all over the country, we went with this guy, because he plays well with Evangelical Southerners.

What kind of message does that send?

It tells me that we are not a National Party.

So it's okay for a candidate to be from a swing state like Pennsylvania, but if there's a Southern candidate it makes for a non-National Party?

What I am saying is that we need to get out of the south in order to be seen as legit to the country.  We can't be the party of the south.

Yeah, screw that little POS region of the country

No, I'm not saying that.  In fact, I don't know what you are worried about.

George W. Bush: White Protestant male from Texas

Bill Clinton: White Protestant male from Texas

Al Gore:  White Protestant male from Tennesse

Bob Dole: White Protestant male from Kansas

George H. W. Bush: White Protestant male from Texas

Jimmy Carter: White Protestant male from Gerogia

Maybe it is time to let some other people in?

Ahem.  Clinton was from Arkansas last time I checked.  I don't consider Kansas Southern; that's Midwestern if anything else.  Guess you aren't counting Ferraro, Mondale, McGovern, Quayle, Lieberman, Kerry, Humphrey, etc.....

The Clinton thing was a mistake, obviously.  I also said that I didn't want anyone from the plains states either.  That's why I lumped Dole in.  Which would also take care of McGovern.

Listen, I don't hate the south.  I think that if you had been on here long enough you would know that I have defended the south in some of the greatest battles that this forum has ever seen.  I just don't want a white-bread candidate from a traditional GOP state.

[12th Doctor]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

Thank you, John.  Exactly.

Example of a Catholic Democrat who might get a lot of support from the ethnic community:

Tom Vilsack

[12th Doctor]

In how many elections since 1860 has a candidate won more than 55% of the vote:

1864 - Lincoln gets 55.02%  (half of country doesn't vote)
1872 - Grant gets 55.63% (helped by disenfranchising Confederates)
1904 - Roosevelt gets 56.42%  (popular prez.)
1920 - Harding gets 60.32% (return to normalcy)
1928 - Hoover gets 58.21% (chicken in every pot)
1932 - Roosevelt gets 57.41% (Great Depression)
1936 - Roosevelt gets 60.80% (height of his popularity)
1952 - Eisenhower gets 55.18% (Korean War)
1956 - Eisenhower gets 57.37% (Ike popular, incompetent challenger)
1964 - Johnson gets 61.05% (Kennedy ass., Goldwater bad candidate)
1972 - Nixon gets 60.67% (McGovern bad candidate)
1984 - Reagan gets 58.77% (Reagan popular)

I count 12 out 37 times a candidate has gotten more than 55% of the vote.  National margins and parties are an anomaly, not to be expected very often.

Still 2.46% is one of the narrowest margins ever, and in in fact the narrowest for a sucessful re-election.
Also, you can't call 1924 a close election.

See, jfern understands what I am saying.  Why are you guys so opposed to the idea of winning by wide margins and building a broad cooalition when it is just within our grasp.

[So the Heroes Fall]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

Ferraro was an unknown VP candidate running against a well established incumbent.  You couldn't have thought of a worse example.

Oh, yeah, and John Kerry seemed really ethnic and Catholic to me.

You basically said people would flock to someone on the basis of their ethnicity and religion alone. That obviously didn't happen. So Kerry didn't play the race or religion card. Doesn't change the facts

To people in this country, it's all white. I'd laugh at anyone who'd honestly think I would be more prone to support someone for any campaign just because they were a Scandinavian Lutheran, which is just as "ethnic" as everyone you listed.

No it isn't.  Obviously you have never been to the Polaski or the Litz Club.

You think there aren't places in Minnesota that are super-ethnic Scandinavian? And guess what, outside of those places the people from there are just white. And in places that have lots of transplants here like where I live or the Twin Cities, no one cares what brand of white you are.

They might not agree with Chick, which I never said, but they still believe a lot of stuff that is laughable (or sad, depending) non-the-less

as do you as you said earlier in the thread that most Protestants believe Catholicism is not Christian and a cult. And the issue is if they believe Catholics are not Christian. Almost no one outside of a few fundamentalist lunatics believes this. I dare you to find any mainline Protestants who believe this.

Thankfully, I don't need you to believe me to know that I am right.  I never seem to recall accusing you, or even all Protestants of anything either.

Most Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be Christians, rather, we are some wierd cult that worships the Pope and Mary.

um, yeah

Most Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be Christians, rather, we are some wierd cult that worships the Pope and Mary.

But if you deny that there isn't a strong vain of anti-Catholic bias in this country... well it is always easy to not notice these things when they aren't happening to you.

in what way? When have there been any major anti-Catholic hate crimes since some Klan activities in the 70s? Conservatives first claim that problems of massive discrimination against blacks and women are no longer issues and gays don't have major problems with this either, and now claim there's massive amounts of anti-Catholic discrimination in the US? LOL!

I don't remember talking about Britian.

Well it's basically the same situation and in fact should actually be worse since they still have the Northern Ireland thing and all of the strife in the past from all the various kings switching churches and all. And yet, even there, Paisley/Chick type loons have very little support. So why would most Protestants here which has never had anything similar believe things similar to such nutcases?

[So the Heroes Fall]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

Thank you, John.  Exactly.

Example of a Catholic Democrat who might get a lot of support from the ethnic community:

Tom Vilsack

How's he any different from Kerry? He's pro-choice and opposed anti-gay legislation.

[The Duke]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

so what the hell does this have to do with ethnicity then? There's plenty of Irish and Italian Catholic folks who have opebo-esque lifestyles (hell, look at Flyers), and I bet there are plenty of German Catholics here who despite supposedly being closer to other whites than the people listed above who are Opus Dei nutcases.

Flyers only wishes he had that lifestyle.  He is also not a real Catholic, as he does not follow Catholicism.

Ethnicity doesn't have to be an objective standard in this context, only subjective.  It is more a description of what people identify with than what their actual heritage is.  The Catholic vote in this case is a reference to people who actually practice Catholicism, not just those who descend from Catholic families.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

so what the hell does this have to do with ethnicity then? There's plenty of Irish and Italian Catholic folks who have opebo-esque lifestyles (hell, look at Flyers), and I bet there are plenty of German Catholics here who despite supposedly being closer to other whites than the people listed above who are Opus Dei nutcases.

Flyers only wishes he had that lifestyle.  He is also not a real Catholic, as he does not follow Catholicism.

Ethnicity doesn't have to be an objective standard in this context, only subjective.  It is more a description of what people identify with than what their actual heritage is.  The Catholic vote in this case is a reference to people who actually practice Catholicism, not just those who descend from Catholic families.

Like every Republican Catholic follows the verse "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God".

[12th Doctor]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

so what the hell does this have to do with ethnicity then? There's plenty of Irish and Italian Catholic folks who have opebo-esque lifestyles (hell, look at Flyers), and I bet there are plenty of German Catholics here who despite supposedly being closer to other whites than the people listed above who are Opus Dei nutcases.

Flyers only wishes he had that lifestyle.  He is also not a real Catholic, as he does not follow Catholicism.

Ethnicity doesn't have to be an objective standard in this context, only subjective.  It is more a description of what people identify with than what their actual heritage is.  The Catholic vote in this case is a reference to people who actually practice Catholicism, not just those who descend from Catholic families.

Like every Republican Catholic follows the verse "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God".

How many times do I have to tell you?  You can not compare the socio-economic structer today to that of 2000 years ago.

[Ebowed]

In the meantime, bringing forward the governor of South Carolina will be a huge sign to the rest of the country that, inspite of having tons of great candidates from all over the country, we went with this guy, because he plays well with Evangelical Southerners.

What kind of message does that send?

It tells me that we are not a National Party.

So it's okay for a candidate to be from a swing state like Pennsylvania, but if there's a Southern candidate it makes for a non-National Party?

What I am saying is that we need to get out of the south in order to be seen as legit to the country.  We can't be the party of the south.

Yeah, screw that little POS region of the country

No, I'm not saying that.  In fact, I don't know what you are worried about.

George W. Bush: White Protestant male from Texas

Bill Clinton: White Protestant male from Texas

Al Gore:  White Protestant male from Tennesse

Bob Dole: White Protestant male from Kansas

George H. W. Bush: White Protestant male from Texas

Jimmy Carter: White Protestant male from Gerogia

Maybe it is time to let some other people in?

Ahem.  Clinton was from Arkansas last time I checked.  I don't consider Kansas Southern; that's Midwestern if anything else.  Guess you aren't counting Ferraro, Mondale, McGovern, Quayle, Lieberman, Kerry, Humphrey, etc.....

The Clinton thing was a mistake, obviously.  I also said that I didn't want anyone from the plains states either.  That's why I lumped Dole in.  Which would also take care of McGovern.

Listen, I don't hate the south.  I think that if you had been on here long enough you would know that I have defended the south in some of the greatest battles that this forum has ever seen.  I just don't want a white-bread candidate from a traditional GOP state.

I don't think you hate the South.  I just don't see why a viable candidate still can't be Southern after so many Southern candidates.  To me it shouldn't really matter what part of the country the guy comes from, though sadly because of the electoral college it does matter.  I won't complain if both parties nominate Southerners, either.  Imagine John Breaux vs Mark Sanford.  I'd have a hard time choosing.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

How many times do I have to tell you?  You can not compare the socio-economic structer today to that of 2000 years ago.

Are you saying that all of Christ's teachings are obsolete?

[Ebowed]

How many times do I have to tell you?  You can not compare the socio-economic structer today to that of 2000 years ago.

Are you saying that all of Christ's teachings are obsolete?

Same question

[The Duke]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

so what the hell does this have to do with ethnicity then? There's plenty of Irish and Italian Catholic folks who have opebo-esque lifestyles (hell, look at Flyers), and I bet there are plenty of German Catholics here who despite supposedly being closer to other whites than the people listed above who are Opus Dei nutcases.

Flyers only wishes he had that lifestyle.  He is also not a real Catholic, as he does not follow Catholicism.

Ethnicity doesn't have to be an objective standard in this context, only subjective.  It is more a description of what people identify with than what their actual heritage is.  The Catholic vote in this case is a reference to people who actually practice Catholicism, not just those who descend from Catholic families.

Like every Republican Catholic follows the verse "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God".

Is that an instruction I'm supposed to follow?

Its great not to be Christian, because I don't have to pay attention to stupid sh**t like this.

[Smash255]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

so what the hell does this have to do with ethnicity then? There's plenty of Irish and Italian Catholic folks who have opebo-esque lifestyles (hell, look at Flyers), and I bet there are plenty of German Catholics here who despite supposedly being closer to other whites than the people listed above who are Opus Dei nutcases.

Flyers only wishes he had that lifestyle.  He is also not a real Catholic, as he does not follow Catholicism.

Ethnicity doesn't have to be an objective standard in this context, only subjective.  It is more a description of what people identify with than what their actual heritage is.  The Catholic vote in this case is a reference to people who actually practice Catholicism, not just those who descend from Catholic families.

Like every Republican Catholic follows the verse "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God".

Rudy Giuliani is Catholic and he is about as socially liberal as you & I are

[12th Doctor]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

Ferraro was an unknown VP candidate running against a well established incumbent.  You couldn't have thought of a worse example.

Oh, yeah, and John Kerry seemed really ethnic and Catholic to me.

You basically said people would flock to someone on the basis of their ethnicity and religion alone. That obviously didn't happen. So Kerry didn't play the race or religion card. Doesn't change the facts

To people in this country, it's all white. I'd laugh at anyone who'd honestly think I would be more prone to support someone for any campaign just because they were a Scandinavian Lutheran, which is just as "ethnic" as everyone you listed.

No it isn't.  Obviously you have never been to the Polaski or the Litz Club.

You think there aren't places in Minnesota that are super-ethnic Scandinavian? And guess what, outside of those places the people from there are just white. And in places that have lots of transplants here like where I live or the Twin Cities, no one cares what brand of white you are.

They might not agree with Chick, which I never said, but they still believe a lot of stuff that is laughable (or sad, depending) non-the-less

as do you as you said earlier in the thread that most Protestants believe Catholicism is not Christian and a cult. And the issue is if they believe Catholics are not Christian. Almost no one outside of a few fundamentalist lunatics believes this. I dare you to find any mainline Protestants who believe this.

Thankfully, I don't need you to believe me to know that I am right.  I never seem to recall accusing you, or even all Protestants of anything either.

Most Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be Christians, rather, we are some wierd cult that worships the Pope and Mary.

um, yeah

Most Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be Christians, rather, we are some wierd cult that worships the Pope and Mary.

But if you deny that there isn't a strong vain of anti-Catholic bias in this country... well it is always easy to not notice these things when they aren't happening to you.

in what way? When have there been any major anti-Catholic hate crimes since some Klan activities in the 70s? Conservatives first claim that problems of massive discrimination against blacks and women are no longer issues and gays don't have major problems with this either, and now claim there's massive amounts of anti-Catholic discrimination in the US? LOL!

I don't remember talking about Britian.

Well it's basically the same situation and in fact should actually be worse since they still have the Northern Ireland thing and all of the strife in the past from all the various kings switching churches and all. And yet, even there, Paisley/Chick type loons have very little support. So why would most Protestants here which has never had anything similar believe things similar to such nutcases?

I have already talked this to death.  You obviously won't listen, so I won't go on with this.  I'll just close with a few things:

1) Being of any German, English, French, Dutch or Scandanvain decent in this country cannot be compared with being of Irish, Polish, Italian or other Eastern European decent, because the former groups have always been accepted by the people of this country as those groups existed from the founding of the country.  The former, however, were often rediculed and and bigoted against because they were "foriegn", but also because they were Catholic (most of the French in early America were Hugnouts).  It wasn't until the 60's that we even started getting out of the ghettos in most places.

If you don't believe in the power of ethnic politics, study how Mike Dukakis won the nomination.  He won it largely thanks to very high turnout in Greek areas.  This isn't a guarentee of success.  The candidate must share common values with the ethnic group.  These values might be political, but they often transend the political as well.  Kerry did not share these values with most ethnically Irish, or most Catholics.

I was raised in an Italian family.  I have a friend who is acctually a "blood" Italian.  I'm more Italian than he is, because his family basically moved out of the ghetto and beat all of the Italianess out of themselves.  All that is left now is a last name.  So there are no hard and fast rules.  Which kinda prove my point about Kerry.

2) You want to find anti-Catholism, search the internet.  It really isn't that hard.

That belittles my point, however, which has been, from the begining that anti-Catholic bias in the country, though not raging, like it was as little as 50 years ago, is still present in daily life.

3) The British have rejected the rampent anti-Catholisism that you see in Northern Ireland, yes.  It is always easier to look at seething hate and see what is worng with it.  When bigotry is more subtle is when it is much more easily accepted, as is the case here.

4) Not so subtle things have happened.  In a town only 30 miles away from here, the Protestant churches spent a full year pulling their resources to pass out anti-Catholic literature, including many Chick tracts.

5) They then hit the town right next to mine, but it didn't last nearly as long because the community there is much larger and they put a stop to it.

6) Regardless of what you say, the average Protestant knows about as much of the truth about Catholic Teaching as a fish knows about riding a bike.

[12th Doctor]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

This is why Super is right and you are wrong.  Going to mass does not make you Catholic, living a life based on Church teaching does.  Driving your wife to the brink of suicide, divorcing her and marrying your colleague's rich widow, backing abortion on demand, and raising a daughter who wears a see trough dress to the Cannes film festival is not Catholic.  Kerry is a Catholic in name only.  Ferraro is also a Catholic in name only.  They are elite northeastern liberals who subscribe to a cocktail party ideology and use their religion for show.  Real Catholics sense this, and don't consider these people to be Catholic.

so what the hell does this have to do with ethnicity then? There's plenty of Irish and Italian Catholic folks who have opebo-esque lifestyles (hell, look at Flyers), and I bet there are plenty of German Catholics here who despite supposedly being closer to other whites than the people listed above who are Opus Dei nutcases.

Flyers only wishes he had that lifestyle.  He is also not a real Catholic, as he does not follow Catholicism.

Ethnicity doesn't have to be an objective standard in this context, only subjective.  It is more a description of what people identify with than what their actual heritage is.  The Catholic vote in this case is a reference to people who actually practice Catholicism, not just those who descend from Catholic families.

Like every Republican Catholic follows the verse "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God".

Rudy Giuliani is Catholic and he is about as socially liberal as you & I are

He also grew up in Brooklyn in a working class Italian ghetto.

John Kerry grew up on Becon Hill with all the other families that have been in Boston since the early 1700's.

[patrick1]

Um yeah, Ferraro gave Mondale such a huge boost among Italian Catholics, right? Kerry was an Irish Catholic.

Just want to make it clear that John Kerry is not nor was he ever Irish.  He lied saying he was Irish a few times to get votes in Mass.  Apparently his grandfather, Austrian Jewish I believe, spun a globe and landed on County Kerry Ireland and decided that was a good name.  The original family name escapes me at the moment.  I just wanted to make sure that that social climbing $hitbag was not thought of as Irish- the Kennedy's already have that market cornered.

[12th Doctor]

How many times do I have to tell you?  You can not compare the socio-economic structer today to that of 2000 years ago.

Are you saying that all of Christ's teachings are obsolete?

Know, I am saying that there is a context to everything.  If I make $70,000 a year today, I would be filthy rich compared to 99% of the population in Christ's time.

Also, 95% illiteracy meant that most people had no chance of becoming more than they were born into and thus the cycle of poverty truely was perminant.

Thus, the meager alms that many wealthy people gave at the time were not nearly enough.