2012: Jefferson vs Adams

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

John Adams (R-MA) / Alexander Hamilton (R-NY)

vs

Thomas Jefferson (D-VA) / Matthew Lyon (D-VT)

Open entirely to interpretation.

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

[PolitiJunkie]

I feel like, though both parties would obviously be way outside the ideology of either candidate, it'd make more sense for Jefferson to run as the Republican and Adams as the Democrat.

[Mechaman]

I feel like, though both parties would obviously be way outside the ideology of either candidate, it'd make more sense for Jefferson to run as the Republican and Adams as the Democrat.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, as I was saying-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

But seriously though, try convincing any Federalist member that taxing the income of wealthy Americans is a good idea.

[Mechaman]

My guess:

See: Economic Interests.

THough really, an argument could be made for a much bigger Democratic blowout, but let's be generous about the chances of an Adams/Hamilton ticket.

[PolitiJunkie]

I feel like, though both parties would obviously be way outside the ideology of either candidate, it'd make more sense for Jefferson to run as the Republican and Adams as the Democrat.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, as I was saying-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

But seriously though, try convincing any Federalist member that taxing the income of wealthy Americans is a good idea.

Like I said, neither would fit into either party. But I think the broad themes of the Federalist Party align better with those of the Democrats than those of the Republicans, and Jefferson was all about small government. Don't mock me; I know my history just fine thank you!

[Mechaman]

I feel like, though both parties would obviously be way outside the ideology of either candidate, it'd make more sense for Jefferson to run as the Republican and Adams as the Democrat.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, as I was saying-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

But seriously though, try convincing any Federalist member that taxing the income of wealthy Americans is a good idea.

Like I said, neither would fit into either party. But I think the broad themes of the Federalist Party align better with those of the Democrats than those of the Republicans, and Jefferson was all about small government. Don't mock me; I know my history just fine thank you!

Yes, but you obviously don't know it well.  Or, you got a bad interpretation of it.  Like for instance, why was Jefferson "small government"?  You, and many others, just seem to stop at that part and skip right to the end of the book and conclude that Jeffersonians were proto-Randists or some sh*t like that.

While we're at it, you seem to have a rather severe misinterpretation of the Federalists if you think thematically they would match up with the present day Democratic Party.  Do you know what the themes of the Federalists were?  Big business.  That's right, what was good for business was good for America.  An Adams/Hamilton ticket would think taxation of the wealthy was ridiculous, they would see environmental regulations as too harmful for business, they would question the existence of a minimum wage.  They would fear the ambulance chasing lawyers of today just like they feared piracy of their day.  Federalists, just like the Republican Party of today, were all about business and protecting the interests thereof with a strong national army and jingoistic nationalism.
Don't get me started on how actually "small government" the GOP is.

But oh yes, Jefferson loved small government so much he thought public education was a great idea.
Once again, thanks for missing the point of Democratic Republican ideology.  It wasn't small government for the sake of small government.  This is the problem you run into when you examine everything through political policy and not actual ideology of the times.  Jefferson believed in smaller government because he believed that it would free the common man and keep him from being a tool of his government.  Of course slavery is a huge exception, which was a commonly held practice amongst both DRs and Federalists.  Don't get me started on Jefferson's thoughts on the clergy.  Or Adams religious piety.

That was what it was all about back then, the elites vs. the commoners, the moralistic vs. the secularists.

But hey, if you think the pro-suffrage, pro-education, secularist, clergy bashing, skeptic about big business would be a Republican now days, be my guest.  Or that the bible thumping workaholic self made millionaire who has an openly elitist anti-suffrage pro-Wall Street runningmate would win the Democratic primaries and get the support of labor unions and poor minorities.  You might as well argue that the British Tories would be Labourites today because they supported protectionism in the 19th century.

Times change, so do policies.

EDIT: Took the dickhead tone out of the post.  Apologies.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Adams was a self-made millionaire, Mech?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

After Georgia changed the confederate flag, I really don't think ideology means that much in terms of being a southern populist from a red state. Ernest fritz Hollings defended the stars and bars and under Bill Clinton transcending race relations, Hollings became a civil rights defender.

[Mechaman]

Adams was a self-made millionaire, Mech?

Well okay, maybe not a millionaire.  But the perception I got was that he had a decent estate that he got through hard work.  I guess maybe a thousandaire or whatever they were back then (inflation adjustments).  He might've inherited property from his father, but he was by no means just "coasting" on it.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Romney ran as a elitist Goper and Jefferson I would image since the confederate flag issue is resolved would run as a present day Clinton. Map would be similar to the Obama map.

[badgate]

Cool idea. I'd love to see Jefferson and Adams' tax returns.



Adams would probably refuse to release them, and Abigail Adams would go on CNN (Colonial News Network) and say "we've given you people enough!"

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Cool idea. I'd love to see Jefferson and Adams' tax returns.



Adams would probably refuse to release them, and Abigail Adams would go on CNN (Colonial News Network) and say "we've given you people enough!"

Man, you're just hatin' on JA tonight, aren't ya?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Now let's take a look at this. We're going to be dealing with some diverse coalitions here. For some of the more urban lower classes that rely on an industrial economy, this might be more difficult. Potentially comparable to how an amount of labor supported McKinley in 1896. The Federalists of course obviously have Wall Street in the bag. As well, they're going to have a very strong moralist wing. As for real life politicians, they're going to be a combination of Wall Street Democrats and Moral Majority Republicans. You're gonna find Joe Lieberman and some Deep South mo'fo in the same camp. The Democratic-Republicans are in a similar weird situation. They could end up with both libertarian Westerners, populist immigrants, and the South Boston type o Catholics all under their wings. You'd have miners and hipsters supporting the same candidates. That said, let's try to hash out a map.

Former Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson (D-CA)/Congressman Matthew Lyon (D-VT) 287 electoral votes
Vice President John Adams (R-MA)/Former Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton (R-NY) 251 electoral votes

[Peter the Lefty]

If the views of Adams and Jefferson were scrutinized and exposed the way those of modern presidential candidates are, Americans would realize what @$$holes the founding fathers whom we're trained to worship really were.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

If the views of Adams and Jefferson were scrutinized and exposed the way those of modern presidential candidates are, Americans would realize what @$$holes the founding fathers whom we're trained to worship really were.

Is the quality of these folks' character of relevance in this thread?

[Peeperkorn]

If the views of Adams and Jefferson were scrutinized and exposed the way those of modern presidential candidates are, Americans would realize what @$$holes the founding fathers whom we're trained to worship really were.

Well, just look at the country they "founded".

---

Adams.

[I Will Not Be Wrong]

Jefferson would surely be liberal on immigration and social issues, but he would be conservative on state rights and being a moderate conservative, ala Susan Collins. To be honest, I view Jefferson more as Libertarian.

John Adams would be a lot like Mitt Romney I think.  

I also think James Madison might be a Democrat today.