were jews republicans before 1928?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 03:33:10 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  U.S. Presidential Election Results (Moderator: Dereich)
  were jews republicans before 1928?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: were jews republicans before 1928?  (Read 2685 times)
freepcrusher
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,828
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: September 10, 2013, 03:33:54 PM »
« edited: September 10, 2013, 04:05:45 PM by freepcrusher »

I remember reading that when the jews first came over to the United States a lot of them voted republican because they could not stand the democratic party as they were a collection of chauvinistic and corrupt Irish bosses and ultra reactionary southern segregationists. So I read they voted republican until 1928 and would vote third party a lot (LaFollette and Debs).
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,207
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2013, 03:53:05 PM »

There were no ultra reactionary southern segregationists in urban Democratic machines. (Except maybe in Baltimore.)
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,609
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 04:02:01 PM »

In many cities - most famously New York - they formed the electoral and activist backbone of the Socialist Party.
Logged
TDAS04
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,469
Bhutan


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2013, 04:17:39 PM »

I believe that they were Republican when it was the party of Lincoln and TR.  TR had good relations with Jews, and appointed the first Jewish cabinet member. 
Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,258
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 04:48:53 PM »

In many cities - most famously New York - they formed the electoral and activist backbone of the Socialist Party.

Those tended to be Eastern European Jews who came to America at the end of the 19th century.

The German Jews who immigrated in the mid-1800s tended to be fairly affluent small business owners who probably leaned Republican.

The Jews in the South who had been in America since the colonial era (especially South Carolina) tended to be staunch Democrats in line with their non-Jewish counterparts.
Logged
Hnv1
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,505


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 09:07:13 AM »

In many cities - most famously New York - they formed the electoral and activist backbone of the Socialist Party.

Those tended to be Eastern European Jews who came to America at the end of the 19th century.

The German Jews who immigrated in the mid-1800s tended to be fairly affluent small business owners who probably leaned Republican.

The Jews in the South who had been in America since the colonial era (especially South Carolina) tended to be staunch Democrats in line with their non-Jewish counterparts.
There were 2 major hopes for the Jews living in Europe, two ideologies that offered them integration and safe lives. Socialism for the eastern European ones, mainly due to Russia having virtually no middle class until well the 21st century and the few Liberal (economic wise) parties that were there were still ridden with popular folkish anti-Semitism. That's why the Socialist party had so much appeal with the young secular Jews from Slavic countries back then, it was the only ideology willing to accept them. Same was the case for the German Jews and classical liberalism, the early western European socialists had a bias against the Petite bourgeoisie Judaism of western Europe, hence why Jews formed the back bone of most radical (in the old European sense) and liberal parties there.

This division existed in Israel as well with the left-wing parties mostly made of Jews from eastern Europe and liberal parties with Jews from western Europe (with a minority from the Jewish intellectuals of Poland and the Ukraine). For those interested in Israeli culture you can notice how Haaretz was considered right wing in the liberal sense of the word and is now considered the bastion of the left due to the shift in the term (despite the paper not changing its views).

For the American (secular) Jews they had the bulk who turned Dem due to economic reasons early on with the rest joining in when the Rep. turned insane on social issues. Republican Jews nowadays are either: ultra orthodox, extremely hawkish on Israel (religious Zionists) and a fraction of crazy libertarians. Folks I know who are pretty conservative fiscally just can't vote for an evangelical republican party  

(sorry if my English isn't top notch it's obviously not my native language Wink )
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,207
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 11:34:16 AM »

the early western European socialists had a bias against the Petite bourgeoisie Judaism of western Europe
Yes, Marx and Lassalle certainly had a bias against the community they were attempting to leave behind. (Statement is of course literally true as well as facetious in context. Smiley )
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
By the time Socialism as a mass movement took shape, not just were Western European Jews not "proletarians", they weren't, on balance, of the other half at all (Eastern European Jewish immigrants to Western Europe being, of course, quite another matter). And of those parties aimed at the haves rather than the have-nots, the sorta-kinda-lefty Liberals were, again, the only ones who'd welcome them - Conservatism having quite the antisemitic strand since its inception, and not only in Germany and Austria.

This also reminds me of that quote I stumbled on once...
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,609
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 11:53:09 AM »

Those tended to be Eastern European Jews who came to America at the end of the 19th century.

Though they formed an overwhelming majority of the Jewish population very quickly. Those that weren't Socialists tended to be machine Democrats, of course.
Logged
Hnv1
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,505


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 03:21:14 PM »

the early western European socialists had a bias against the Petite bourgeoisie Judaism of western Europe
Yes, Marx and Lassalle certainly had a bias against the community they were attempting to leave behind. (Statement is of course literally true as well as facetious in context. Smiley )
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
By the time Socialism as a mass movement took shape, not just were Western European Jews not "proletarians", they weren't, on balance, of the other half at all (Eastern European Jewish immigrants to Western Europe being, of course, quite another matter). And of those parties aimed at the haves rather than the have-nots, the sorta-kinda-lefty Liberals were, again, the only ones who'd welcome them - Conservatism having quite the antisemitic strand since its inception, and not only in Germany and Austria.

This also reminds me of that quote I stumbled on once...
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
As Jewish nationality was not yet an established term during his time, through Marx's views he was not in fact Jewish (btw the very first Zionist thinkers was Hess - one of Marx adversaries).

Regarding your remark on conservatism: it's true western European conservatives were anti-Semitic but they did so in a rather stately\old fashioned manner they most often just disliked the Jewish nationality or had the old religious arguments (we killed Jesus you see). But none of the European romantic conservative movements showed any of the pure racial hate exhibited by the ideologies that grew from the grass roots socialism of western Europe (Nazism, Fascism, and such). That's why the Jewish community in Germany was so shocked at the rise of Hitler, Germany at the time was the Jewish people biggest hope (more than America with its numerous clauses or WASP\southern racism) and thus it became our biggest disappointment. Up until Hitler's rise to power it was the French ultra-nationalist who showed the greatest amount of racial hatred or the British establishment with its conservative anti-Semitism.
Martin Heidegger's turn is a prime example for the slap in the face that was in store.

I was born in Israel to a Mapam house, we were staunchly pro-soviet once and one of the reasons there was such a wide support back then for Stalin (beyond him "liberating Europe") was that frankly he was a murderous psychopath but he never once showed any signs of true anti-Semitism (his conflict with Trotsky is a different issue). The pogroms of East Europe during the Tzar period would make the KKK ones look like a mild banter. The socialists stopped it, and they always had the credit for it.   
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,609
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 03:29:30 AM »

But none of the European romantic conservative movements showed any of the pure racial hate exhibited by the ideologies that grew from the grass roots socialism of western Europe (Nazism, Fascism, and such).

That grew from grassroots-to-astroturf populist nationalism - 'völkisch' in a German context, but you can see parallel tendencies elsewhere, even if not quite so stomach turning; you can even stretch it to Joseph Chamberlain in Britain, who had more in common with Karl Lueger than is entirely polite to mention - which was generally explicitly hostile to socialism as well.
Logged
Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
olawakandi
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 87,786
Jamaica
Political Matrix
E: -6.84, S: -0.17


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2013, 01:18:13 PM »

Reaction to Great Depression and sympathy for black Americans Felix Frankfurter, Cardoza, and Brandeis made contributions for civil rights as they saw their extermination as equals during WWII.
Logged
longtimelurker
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 828


Political Matrix
E: -2.19, S: 2.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2013, 02:53:55 PM »

My mother's (Russian) Jewish family come over in the 1880's, and started voting around 1900.  According to my late grandmother, they were Republicans until the 1932 election.  They were middle class New Yorkers who hated Governor Roosevelt, but the Great Depression caused them to leave the GOP and vote Dem.
Logged
Oldiesfreak1854
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,674
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2013, 05:44:13 PM »

Considering that Democrats started the KKK, as well as fiscal conservatism (at least as a stereotype), I would think that Jews might have been more Republican prior to 1932 and the New Deal.  Of course, a lot of the social reforms that many Republicans advocated prior to that could have been seen as targeting Jews along with Catholics, so I could see them leaning Democrat prior to that.  However, I do remember reading somewhere that a lot of the German Jewish immigrants tended to lean Republican (along with the German Protestants, while the German Catholics leaned Democrat.)  Of course, that can't be used to generalize about all Jews, though.
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,207
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 06:17:25 AM »

Regarding your remark on conservatism: it's true western European conservatives were anti-Semitic but they did so in a rather stately\old fashioned manner they most often just disliked the Jewish nationality or had the old religious arguments (we killed Jesus you see).
You also used to sacrifice Christian children for Pessach whenever you got away with it.
You worshipped the devil and committed unclean acts with swine. It was necessary to lock you in at night and all day sunday (the latter law had to be reaffirmed by the patrician city fathers every dozen years or so because the common people including the city guard just wouldn't keep up the necessary vigilance.) And when the old powers-that-be were resurrected to their old levels of command in 1813 by the Prussians and the Russians, the first thing they did - literally - was to eject the sole Jew hired into the civil service during the Napoleonic years. (He went on to become a famous writer... and be baptized Sad . Ludwig Börne.)
This kind of thing is what the antisemitism of German romantic conservatism was built upon. Then later, of course, we got the bizarre split among both Conservatives and 'Antisemites' (this is what the media called them; they preferred Deutsch-Sozial and similar terms. The quotation marks are needed because, though certainly Antisemitic, that's not all they were and they were not the only Antisemites around) of whether Jews' defects were largely due to their inferior race or their inferior religion - with immense practical consequences due to the large number of converts among upper-class Jews.)
And when the DNVP proclaimed itself the Only German Party in its early 20s election campaigns, what they meant was that there were DVP MPs of Jewish decent.

Hitler has a long pedigree, and the shock and disappointment is largely due to a long pattern of the the German upperclass publicly hating on you but doing business with you anyways - that German Antisemitism, while widespread, had a worse bark than bite.
Logged
bedstuy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,526


Political Matrix
E: -1.16, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 12:02:07 PM »

Once there was a significant Jewish population in America, it was concentrated in large cities.  These large cities like New York were often dominated by Democratic machine politics.  New York in the 20s was probably over a quarter Jewish, so it would make sense that Jews were still more likely to be Democrats prior to becoming a solidly Democratic group.

It's important to remember though that politics was less polarized with Republicans being the right wing party and Democrats being the left wing party.  There were many urban progressives in the Republican Party and many redneck conservatives in the Democratic Party.  Ideologically, Jews were largely on the left side of the spectrum, but that could lead them to support Republicans like Hazen Pingree or Teddy Roosevelt. 

Considering that Democrats started the KKK, as well as fiscal conservatism (at least as a stereotype), I would think that Jews might have been more Republican prior to 1932 and the New Deal.  Of course, a lot of the social reforms that many Republicans advocated prior to that could have been seen as targeting Jews along with Catholics, so I could see them leaning Democrat prior to that.  However, I do remember reading somewhere that a lot of the German Jewish immigrants tended to lean Republican (along with the German Protestants, while the German Catholics leaned Democrat.)  Of course, that can't be used to generalize about all Jews, though.

I'm assuming you mean that the stereotype is that Jews are greedy so they are and were fiscally conservative politically.  Could you please confine your arguments based on fixed ignorant stereotypes to the political parties and not religious/ethnic groups?  Thanks.
Logged
All Along The Watchtower
Progressive Realist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,420
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2013, 06:23:07 PM »
« Edited: September 13, 2013, 06:31:40 PM by Progressive Realist »

It's important to remember though that politics was less polarized with Republicans being the right wing party and Democrats being the left wing party.  There were many urban progressives in the Republican Party and many redneck conservatives in the Democratic Party.  Ideologically, Jews were largely on the left side of the spectrum, but that could lead them to support Republicans like Hazen Pingree or Teddy Roosevelt.  

Since when were Democrats the left wing party? Tongue

I'd argue that politics was more localized (and based on rival political machines in different cities and towns) back before the rise of American mass suburbia (or back before the mass urbanization of the early 1900s, if you want to go back even further).

Political machines were a way for the working classes of the cities to gain influence (though yes, many were dominated by ruthless, corrupt Bosses)-which really makes one question the motives of the middle-class reformers who successfully brought down many machines.

Of course, the Democratic Party later incorporated working-class influences into its electoral coalition in the 1930s. However, how much of that was a reaction to the growing radical labor movements of the 1930s during the Great Depression? That is something that I am more interested in learning about.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,609
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2013, 08:17:17 PM »

As an aside, Irving Howe is also worth a read on New York Jewish politics (culture, society, everything) during this period.
Logged
Badger
badger
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 40,237
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2013, 06:13:08 PM »

President Taft once said "Jews make the best Republicans".

Though Adeli Stevenson later said "Jews make the best Democrats".
Logged
Calthrina950
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,937
United States


P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2019, 04:46:54 PM »

If I am recalling correctly, in Kevin Phillips' Emerging Republican Majority, it is stated that Harding won the Jewish vote in 1920, and Coolidge got a plurality in 1924. In 1928, however, Jews voted overwhelmingly for Al Smith, and have voted Democratic by large margins ever since.
Logged
darklordoftech
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,389
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2019, 07:02:56 PM »

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections

This says Democrats have done better with Jewish voters as far back as 1916, with the exception of 1920, where Debs took so many votes away from Cox that Harding got a plurality of Jewish voters.
Logged
Calthrina950
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,937
United States


P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2019, 07:58:00 PM »

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections

This says Democrats have done better with Jewish voters as far back as 1916, with the exception of 1920, where Debs took so many votes away from Cox that Harding got a plurality of Jewish voters.

It would be fascinating to know about the voting record of Jewish voters prior to 1916. I wonder if T.R. Roosevelt might have won them in 1904. But it is also interesting how Harding only won the Jewish vote because of Debs. However, Hughes only lost them by 10 against Wilson, so it's possible that Harding could have gotten an outright majority. Jews, just like ethnic Catholics (Irish, Italian, German), reacted badly to Wilson's war and postwar foreign policies.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.047 seconds with 11 queries.