How SoCons Can Win the Culture Wars - Lessons from Ultra-Orthodox Judaism

[TJ in Oregon]

This is essentially the argument that traditionalist Catholics make against the Second Vatican Council: it removed the separate social stigma and identity from Catholicism and remade us as generic Americans. Prior to that point, the use of Latin, strict fasting rules, not using public schools, and a general segregation from society at-large. Then in the 60s, Catholics dropped much of this and were integrated. The hopes at the time were to solve a myriad of minor problems, and, if there was one vague far-reaching one, the reunification of Christianity.

These are effective ideas for how one could hope to shape a revolution for the long term, but bringing about a drastic change to how we interact with society, walling ourselves off so to speak, is not something that can easily be done without risking a discontinuity in our practices that will lead others to confusion and cause more disarray. Additionally, a distinct part of Christianity, is to not wall ourselves off from the world. Christ didn't wall himself off from sin. We may have issues with the prevailing culture and we can never blindly consent to it. But we also have a responsibility to live as imitators of Christ in our world. I don't think Christ would have advocated this strategy.

[TJ in Oregon]

I also find it quite rash to assume that a child will be a conservative Christian simply because their parents are.  Heck, they could turn out to be militant atheists for all we know.  And as long as folks like Pat Robertson remain the symbol of modern Christianity (you can blame both Christians and the media for that one), both liberals and conservatives will pay the price for it.  You cannot simply "make the transition out of the faith more difficult" by segregating people.  In fact, you risk alienating more people in doing so, hurting the religion even further.

I think you missed his point Scott; if we took the lifestyle of the Orthodox Jews as our model, renouncing the faith would require basically disowning everything about your life, from your family to your home to your school. If we created a bubble as the Orthodox Jews do, it almost certainly would achieve that purpose as it has for the Orthodox Jews (or at least enough of one that their population is rapidly rising).

[TJ in Oregon]

The thing is with that sort of a social ideal, you wouldn't settle down on your own in adulthood, unless it was in a neighborhood of the same sort. College would be the same way, if you went at all it would be to an institution of the same viewpoint surrounded by people of the same viewpoint.

However, you are correct that you couldn't get all Christians to agree to do this (this idea is already based on the premise that you're letting the 'progressive' strains leave the reservation and go evolve on their own to begin with, not the relationship between Hasids and Reform Jews, but forget that point for now and just assume its only 'conservative' Christians), which is one of the main issues with it. I obviously want the socons to win these types of battles, but that did not stop me from moving to Madison and trying to get a PhD. This career path would simply not be available in the setting DC is describing.

[TJ in Oregon]

DC, I think the way we might want to go about this type of thought isn't to match the Orthodox Jews, but to match the Mormons. They maintain their religiosity not by running away from society but by immersing themselves in it when they require everyone to spend time as a missionary. Their missionaries aren't particularly successful, but what the idea really accomplishes is that it takes young adults out on their own for the first time and places them in a structured environment focused on their faith, rather than throwing them into the population at large. The young adults spend those months establishing a life ethic on their own, and then subsequently go on to live careers acclimated to their social surroundings.