Communism vs. Islam
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  Communism vs. Islam
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Question: which is worse?
#1
Communism
 
#2
Islam
 
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Total Voters: 31

Author Topic: Communism vs. Islam  (Read 5759 times)
Bandit3 the Worker
Populist3
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« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2005, 02:35:20 PM »

Communism is the stripping of individual rights (civil liberties), the seizure of private property, the prohibition of individual thought, no free press, arrest and detention of political opponents, sweat shops that pay wages below livable standards, the creation of an oligarchial authoritarian system of government where only those in power can earn wealth and the middle class is non-existent, plus many more abhorant acts of oppression.

In other words, Bush is a communist.
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zachman
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« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2005, 02:45:10 PM »

Both are bad if you treat them like ideologies.
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Rob
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« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2005, 03:50:04 PM »

At least Communists are somewhat sane, although terribly misguided. They're not into suicide bombing, which the crazy Muslims are big fans of.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2005, 04:17:46 PM »

Before I'll answer this I wanna know two things:

1. What do you mean by Communism?
2. What do you mean by Islam?
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David S
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« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2005, 05:15:24 PM »

Why does it always have to be two lousy choices? This question is like asking if you would rather be shot in the head or stabbed in the heart.  NEITHER ONE!!!
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TX_1824
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« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2005, 05:18:40 PM »

Communism is the stripping of individual rights (civil liberties), the seizure of private property, the prohibition of individual thought, no free press, arrest and detention of political opponents, sweat shops that pay wages below livable standards, the creation of an oligarchial authoritarian system of government where only those in power can earn wealth and the middle class is non-existent, plus many more abhorant acts of oppression.

In other words, Bush is a communist.

*smiles*
I will assume you said that only to provoke some angry response from me. Sorry, can't help you there.
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BRTD
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« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2005, 11:05:35 PM »

Before I'll answer this I wanna know two things:

1. What do you mean by Communism?
2. What do you mean by Islam?

dictionary definition.
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went that way
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« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2005, 09:14:49 PM »
« Edited: March 04, 2005, 09:35:03 PM by went that way »

"Communism, although this is really apples and oranges. There are successful Islamic countries; there are no successful Communist countries.

Many peaceful Islamics would find this very suggestion offensive.

Still, though, apples and oranges."
Also Communist Country (or State) is an Oxymoron.
Yes There have been succesful examples of Communism.
(Note these Communes are more Anarcho-Communist or Libertarian Communist or Non-Marxist Communists)
Communities in Spain during the Civil War.
A few Argitinan(Spelling?) Factories.

"In other words, Bush is a communist."
He hasn't been taking away people's private property, so no.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2005, 09:37:37 PM »

Why does it always have to be two lousy choices? This question is like asking if you would rather be shot in the head or stabbed in the heart.  NEITHER ONE!!!

I'd rather be shot in the head actually Cheesy
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2005, 05:15:56 PM »

Before I'll answer this I wanna know two things:

1. What do you mean by Communism?
2. What do you mean by Islam?

dictionary definition.

In other words you are asking which is better in theory?

As dictionaries do not define what happens in practice, we can effectively throw every communist and Islamic temporal regime out of the window and look at the two on principle.

On principle both are actually quite good though Islam is generally the more misunderstood.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2005, 05:26:15 PM »

Yes There have been succesful examples of Communism.
(Note these Communes are more Anarcho-Communist or Libertarian Communist or Non-Marxist Communists)
Communities in Spain during the Civil War.
A few Argitinan(Spelling?) Factories.

Any system can work on a small scale - if the participants know and respect eachother, it can work. However, certain systems don't work as well on the large scale - communism is one of them. People inevitably have conflicting desires, beliefs, and goals - and the more people you have the more conflict there is. Any communist nation would have a singular set of goals and beliefs, which doesn't work for the people. Also, communism provides very little motivation for hard work - you get fed no matter what, and you have no opportunity to advance the quality of your life. So, while you can find a few small examples of working communism, it will never work on the large scale - and that's what we're talking about.
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Bono
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« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2005, 05:28:52 PM »

I know someone on DU who was in Nepal and has met the rebels. He says they are very friendly and get along very well with tourists. Largely they are just sick of their country's exploitation by big foreign businesses (mainly Coca-Cola) and oppressive feudal traditions.

And that's just fine.

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Don't pretend those girls with guns don't look evil to those who they're pointing the guns at. There's an essential difference between the Nepal rebels and the Iraqi insurgents/Al-Queda - the Nepal rebels aren't pointing their guns and aggression at you and your family/country. On the other hand, the insurgents and bin Laden are pointing their guns at us - that automatically makes them seem more evil to us, and we get the image of Islamic insurgents in our head as evil. If the Nepal rebels started going after you, they'd appear more evil to you.

Also, do you think the insurgents look like that when they go home to their families? You can't judge someone solely on how they appear - there's a number of menacing looking people in the world who are completely nice guys, and plenty of nice looking people who are evil sons of bitches.

They're pointing their guns at the photographer, who was almost certainly friendly with them since it looks like a staged shoot. But I know no one in Iraq, and since I was against the invasion and am totally against our current government, it hardly seems like my country or something involving me is over there. But I still think these guys look like evil SOBs:



I'm not going to ask, first of all, why the hell someone would do something like go to Nepal to meet rebels. And, honestly, I do not care what your friend on DU has to say. Personal experience for a few days is hardly worth mentioning, especially when it is not yours.

you didn't ask, but I'll answer anyway, he did not go to Nepal to meet rebels. Nepal is a very popular tourist destination.


Ted Bundy lived in this very neighborhood. Went to my middle school. Charming, social fellow. Many sociopathic people are smooth, handsome, and disarming, and can talk about brutally murdering innocent people with a smile on their face and not even a tangential understanding of what guilt is supposed to be and feel like. A photograph proves nothing other than that they can comb their hair, crawl into the fetal position, and smile for the camera. Everyone's an actor when the pay is good, so to speak.

You think a POW is able to prepare to look good for the camera?

You are about as convincing as Dr. Crippen's defense lawyer.
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BRTD
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« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2005, 01:22:34 AM »

alright guys, example:

Afghanistan under the Soviet puppet regime vs. Aghanistan under the Taliban

which was worse?
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opebo
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« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2005, 10:33:28 AM »

alright guys, example:

Afghanistan under the Soviet puppet regime vs. Aghanistan under the Taliban

which was worse?

Great example!  Afghanistan was obviously a much more pleasant place - and was much more free - under Soviet rule than Taliban rule.  However I'm sure it all depends on point of view.  For a woman communism was vastly preferable, for a rich ruling-class male, no doubt the Taliban were somewhat preferable.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2005, 01:14:15 PM »

alright guys, example:

Afghanistan under the Soviet puppet regime vs. Aghanistan under the Taliban

which was worse?

Counterexample:

What is worse - living in North Korea or living in, say, Egypt?

The problem with this kind of logic is that you can always find these things in different degrees. Cuba is obviously better to live in than North Korea - both are communist, but one is not as bad. There are different degrees in the Muslim countries as well.

Now, of course, what you pointed out with Afghanistan under the Taliban doesn't necessarily reflect Islam - it was the fact that it was an extremist theocracy that made it bad, not Islam. Had the theocracy been some extremist Christian sect, it may have been just as bad.
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BRTD
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« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2005, 01:17:51 PM »

alright guys, example:

Afghanistan under the Soviet puppet regime vs. Aghanistan under the Taliban

which was worse?

Counterexample:

What is worse - living in North Korea or living in, say, Egypt?

The problem with this kind of logic is that you can always find these things in different degrees. Cuba is obviously better to live in than North Korea - both are communist, but one is not as bad. There are different degrees in the Muslim countries as well.

Now, of course, what you pointed out with Afghanistan under the Taliban doesn't necessarily reflect Islam - it was the fact that it was an extremist theocracy that made it bad, not Islam. Had the theocracy been some extremist Christian sect, it may have been just as bad.

Except Egypt is a secular regime, not an Islamic one.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2005, 01:19:43 PM »

alright guys, example:

Afghanistan under the Soviet puppet regime vs. Aghanistan under the Taliban

which was worse?

Counterexample:

What is worse - living in North Korea or living in, say, Egypt?

The problem with this kind of logic is that you can always find these things in different degrees. Cuba is obviously better to live in than North Korea - both are communist, but one is not as bad. There are different degrees in the Muslim countries as well.

Now, of course, what you pointed out with Afghanistan under the Taliban doesn't necessarily reflect Islam - it was the fact that it was an extremist theocracy that made it bad, not Islam. Had the theocracy been some extremist Christian sect, it may have been just as bad.

Except Egypt is a secular regime, not an Islamic one.

Saudi Arabia then. It's really besides the point - Islam itself is not inherently bad as far as I'm concerned.
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BRTD
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« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2005, 01:21:15 PM »

North Korea isn't really communist though, it's a bizarre offshoot they called "Juche"

The only truly communist country remaining in the world is Cuba.
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phk
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« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2005, 01:28:23 PM »
« Edited: March 10, 2005, 01:35:29 PM by New Left Marxist »

alright guys, example:

Afghanistan under the Soviet puppet regime vs. Aghanistan under the Taliban

which was worse?

Counterexample:

What is worse - living in North Korea or living in, say, Egypt?

The problem with this kind of logic is that you can always find these things in different degrees. Cuba is obviously better to live in than North Korea - both are communist, but one is not as bad. There are different degrees in the Muslim countries as well.

Now, of course, what you pointed out with Afghanistan under the Taliban doesn't necessarily reflect Islam - it was the fact that it was an extremist theocracy that made it bad, not Islam. Had the theocracy been some extremist Christian sect, it may have been just as bad.

Dibble is right to point out that in every religion there is some fanaticism.

But Muslims seem to be too radical and often too loud in their demonstrations; and that may be what the world sees as odd, if not hard to understand. Perhaps if thousands of Christians went around each year and crucified themselves it would seem ridiculous, but a few isolated cases fail to get the same attention as the millions who mourn Ashura in a most dramatic fashion.

While other religions seem to have evolved over time, Islam has maintained its ancient traditions. Take Christianity for example. Except for the Vatican and a few other places, Christian women are no longer obliged to cover their heads to enter a church as the effects of Christianity are nuetralized by the secular traditions of North America and Europe.

Also, Christians no longer punish adultery by stoning -- as they used to. Many nuns do not wear the habit and there are now many women priests. These are only examples of the many changes in one religion but the list goes on and on and the same is true for most others. What is hard for people to see is the absence of such changes in Islam.

Christianity lacks its conservative-radical element, Islam still has it.

We are now at a day and age when religion is more or less a personal choice. True as it may be that there is much politics involved and that there will always be those who in their struggle for power, will take advantage of religion, but on a personal level, it is all about peace.


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