Don't ask don't tell policy

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Gays being banned because of don't ask don't tell costs the military $200 million a year. If you want to cut spending, allowing gays would be a good idea.

http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-05-299

[The Duke]

Allow gays.

[Gabu]

Allow gays and let them know that if they do anything funny, they will be harshly disciplined just like heterosexuals would be.

We're talking about soldiers here; if they're unable to exhibit restraint and respect for authority, they should not have been soldiers in the first place.  I don't buy the argument that, if you allow gays to be open about it, the barracks will turn into a giant orgy.

[Platypus]

I must admit it's funny that heaps of much-needed the arabic language experts were sent home for being gay. Both because of the idiocity of the policy (if you allow men and women, then there should be no reason to exclude gays) and because I wouldn't expect many queer fellas to learn arabic

[opebo]

and because I wouldn't expect many queer fellas to learn arabic

Actually homosexuality is extremely common in the Arab and Muslim countries in general.  Of course it is mostly the sort of situational homosexuality that is inevitable in repressed theocracies where women are unavailable, but still, there's a lot of buggery available there.  Look at Lawrence of Arabia.

However, your point is well taken - sex tourism in lands where you get chopped up in little peices for doing what comes naturally is not a good idea.

[KEmperor]

Whatever, let them in if they want to join.

[John Dibble]

Allow gays and let them know that if they do anything funny, they will be harshly disciplined just like heterosexuals would be.

We're talking about soldiers here; if they're unable to exhibit restraint and respect for authority, they should not have been soldiers in the first place.  I don't buy the argument that, if you allow gays to be open about it, the barracks will turn into a giant orgy.

I pretty much agree with this - so long as they can maintain discipline and fight, it's fine.

[Blue Rectangle]

Let them in/let them stay.

The military obviously has more to fear from the sick heterosexuals like those at Abu Garib.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Barry Goldwater was right on this one: "It doesn't matter if you are straight, only if you can shoot straight."

one's sexuality has nothing to do with how they handle a rifle.

[A18]

Well worth the cost.

[opebo]

Heck if they aren't going to let soldiers visit prostitutes anymore
(http://www.usabroad.org/2005/02/us_civilian_dod.html)
 there'd better be some sort of outlet

[12th Doctor]

Allow Gays

If other soldiers don't like it, that's their problem.

[angus]

there's a lot of buggery available there.

I noticed that in Egypt as well.  Seems to be the norm in most circles.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Barry Goldwater was right on this one: "It doesn't matter if you are straight, only if you can shoot straight."

one's sexuality has nothing to do with how they handle a rifle.

They can handle er... pistols... well.

[David S]

Barry Goldwater was right on this one: "It doesn't matter if you are straight, only if you can shoot straight."

Makes sense to me!

[A18]

There are a lot of arguments for excluding gays from the military. How straight they can shoot is not and has not been one of them.

[angus]

There are a lot of arguments for excluding gays from the military. How straight they can shoot is not and has not been one of them.

you're right.  and the poster hughento made a prescient comment with regards to the most often mentioned objection:  morale.  I don't often agree with him, as his mind operates from a place of abject bigotry, oppression, and, as we recently learned, has the handicap of growing up under an overbearing crazy mother, but I think he's connected the dots fairly well about this.  are we missing some important point?

[opebo]

the poster hughento...his mind operates from a place of abject bigotry, oppression, and, as we recently learned, has the handicap of growing up under an overbearing crazy mother...

What's wrong with hughento?  I never noticed any bigotry.  And who among us didn't have an overbearing crazy mother - thats what mothers are.

[angus]

ah, common, we all practice amateur pop psychology on each other.  a few days ago he posted something to the effect that his mom was willing to waste some brake pads just to make some dork conform to some silly car rule.  it was like this little light went on in my head and so much became so much clearer after that.  i'm sure it's only one of many stories.  someone actually had the audacity to start a "politics of parents..." thread a while back.  it grew to a few pages and contained some interesting factoids, but most folks aren't willing to let go of tightly clutched secrets, I suppose.  (YOU and I being exceptions, of course.  I'm drunk, what's your excuse?)  Anyway, that was an invitation to retort, I suppose, I just hadn't expected the response to be from you.

You I'm still trying to figure out!  AAArgh! 

[opebo]

  (YOU and I being exceptions, of course.  I'm drunk, what's your excuse?) 

You I'm still trying to figure out!  AAArgh! 

Hah, let me know if you do, it might be helpful!  But my excuse for letting it all hang out on here is - I'm bored and have no one to talk to.  Pretty  much all the other English speakers in this town are drunken blowhards.

[Redefeatbush04]

Barry Goldwater was right on this one: "It doesn't matter if you are straight, only if you can shoot straight."

one's sexuality has nothing to do with how they handle a rifle.

They can handle er... pistols... well.

lol.

I actually favor the don't ask don't tell policy. The argument is not that gays will be too distracted to shoot, it is that straights will be too distracted to shoot, or think properly. It is really uncomfortable for normal guys to be sleeping in the same quarters as gay guys. However it is a small problem, and during times of war gays should be allowed to serve, especially when we are in such dire need of troops.

[Platypus]

ah, common, we all practice amateur pop psychology on each other. a few days ago he posted something to the effect that his mom was willing to waste some brake pads just to make some dork conform to some silly car rule. it was like this little light went on in my head and so much became so much clearer after that. i'm sure it's only one of many stories. someone actually had the audacity to start a "politics of parents..." thread a while back. it grew to a few pages and contained some interesting factoids, but most folks aren't willing to let go of tightly clutched secrets, I suppose. (YOU and I being exceptions, of course. I'm drunk, what's your excuse?) Anyway, that was an invitation to retort, I suppose, I just hadn't expected the response to be from you.

You I'm still trying to figure out! AAArgh!

The kid was being an absolute turd, angus-pretty much any 8 year old is, including, I presume, myself. She put the brakes on, he learnt his lesson, and all was fine and dandy.

My mum is, like most mothers, concerned for the safety of her kids, but she's hardly a control freak. I'd say I would be in the minority of my classmates in having the ability to be in the city after midnight, for example, because she trusts me. And one of the reasons she trusts me is because I'm smart enough to take her advice when it's good, and to wear my damn seatbelt

BTW-Oppression? Please explain. ))
Bigotry-Everyone is a bigot, and every country is full of bigotry. It just depends on who the victims of your bigotry are, whetehr it's called bigotry or something like "postive discrimination", which to me is just as bad. My best mate is Singaporean, and when I first met him I spent sio long trying to be polite and accomodating, then I went, ' it, just talk to him about Cricket'. Turns out he's a cricket nerd, and we've been friends for three years. Bigotry is fine, as long as it isn't enacted in person-to-person relationships or in ways that affect other people, imho. Once a person's bigotry affects someone else, it becomes a problem.

[Alcon]

Let them in. I don't care.

Honest to God, I don't understand why anyone cares about any of this. To me, it just should not be an issue anymore.

[Nym90]

Allow gays.

[??????????]

Option 1.