IDS2: A Firearm Policy for the South (GOVERNOR!)

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Sponsor: Velasco

Debate away kids.

[Supersonic]

I have no qualms with this.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

At first glance, this bill does look like a basic consolidation of our national gun laws... but do you think it's even necessary? These regulations have been set at the federal level, and regardless of our opinions on them, they are law. We could pass whatever we wanted, but our citizens would not be exempt from the provisions established in Nyman.

That's why I'm a bit hesitant to support the bill. We'd be doubling up on rules that have already been set, and adding another layer of legislation could unintentionally make the issue a bit murky. Plus, I wasn't in favour of half these regulations when they came to a vote in the senate. I don't want to seem to sign off on them here.

That being said, if we do pass this bill, I wonder whether this language isn't a bit overbearing: "The breach of this norm will bring the suspension of the rights of the above mentioned owners to the possession of firearms." I may be wrong, but I don't recall setting specific penalties for citizens refusing to register their weapons with the registry. If we did, I doubt the language was so ambiguous as in this particular bill. Looking at the wording above, one could presume that their right to bear arms would be infringed for the rest of their lives. Sounds dubious, especially when many of these people may not have known that they needed to register their guns. Shouldn't some of the blame lay on whoever sold the weapon? If they are not giving their customers the proper paperwork, that's a bit problematic.

Also, for the record, I think a lot of the gun bills we passed in the senate are unconstitutional. The Atlasian Constitution states that "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed." The use of the word "infringed" implies that even limiting gun rights should not be tolerated. I guess this point isn't directly related to the debate at hand, but it plays into the fact that I just don't want sign-off on these restrictions again, especially when it doesn't seem necessary.

[Enderman]

Hmm.... At first I would say no... but now that I read a little more, I'm a lean no...

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Is Velasco around to speak to some of the issues I raised? Don't want to be the activity police, but it would be nice to get this show on the road at some point.

[Adam Griffin]

Is Velasco Zanas around to speak to some of the issues I raised? Don't want to be the activity police, but it would be nice to get this show on the road at some point.

He went through a divorce shortly after swearing in in August. If we go by Section 9 of the Consolidated IDS Legislature Rules and Procedures, then his seat has been vacant since ~September 10th.

Seriously, is no one paying attention? Feds could have had a majority for almost a month now, LOL.

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Does anybody have any amendments to propose to this bill? If not, I will open a vote for cloture.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Is Velasco Zanas around to speak to some of the issues I raised? Don't want to be the activity police, but it would be nice to get this show on the road at some point.

He went through a divorce shortly after swearing in in August. If we go by Section 9 of the Consolidated IDS Legislature Rules and Procedures, then his seat has been vacant since ~September 10th.

Seriously, is no one paying attention? Feds could have had a majority for almost a month now, LOL.

Velasco wrote the bill. I know who the legislators are. It is not absurd to ask the original sponsor to come in to defend his bill.

Also, my party isn't intent on improving our fortunes using technicalities. All of us should have been more on the ball with the Zanas situation, just for the sake of the region. Not for the sake of "winning Atlasia." I shouldn't be surprised that that's how you measure virtually everything to do with this game, but sometimes blame and cheap jabs don't count for much.

Anyway, yeah. I contacted him the other night to see where he was at with the game. We all want the best here, but it would be good to have a more active legislature.

Does anybody have any amendments to propose to this bill? If not, I will open a vote for cloture.

Nothing to offer here. I'll support cloture, thanks Hashemite.

[Adam Griffin]

Velasco wrote the bill. I know who the legislators are. It is not absurd to ask the original sponsor to come in to defend his bill.

Also, my party isn't intent on improving our fortunes using technicalities. All of us should have been more on the ball with the Zanas situation, just for the sake of the region. Not for the sake of "winning Atlasia." I shouldn't be surprised that that's how you measure virtually everything to do with this game, but sometimes blame and cheap jabs don't count for much.

Anyway, yeah. I contacted him the other night to see where he was at with the game. We all want the best here, but it would be good to have a more active legislature.

Don't be such a prick. I'll admit that I didn't pay attention to who sponsored it and assumed you thought Zanas was still a Legislator, since Velasco hasn't been for quite some time. I apologize (I guess, for my inaccurate assumption and attempted clarification).

The rest is pious hot air and is certainly rich to hear, coming from the former leader of Atlasia's zombie-infused, empty-slate conservative party that is designed to win at all costs and the man who helped elect a Emperor that has failed to appoint anyone to replace a vacant seat for the past month. Don't try to spin this blatant neglect into "we care about the game". Change your 'pax, Hagrid.

[tmthforu94]

u mad bro?

[Adam Griffin]

Atlasia's zombie-infused, empty-slate conservative party that is designed to win at all costs

u mad bro?

Like a clarion call.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Velasco wrote the bill. I know who the legislators are. It is not absurd to ask the original sponsor to come in to defend his bill.

Also, my party isn't intent on improving our fortunes using technicalities. All of us should have been more on the ball with the Zanas situation, just for the sake of the region. Not for the sake of "winning Atlasia." I shouldn't be surprised that that's how you measure virtually everything to do with this game, but sometimes blame and cheap jabs don't count for much.

Anyway, yeah. I contacted him the other night to see where he was at with the game. We all want the best here, but it would be good to have a more active legislature.

Don't be such a prick. I'll admit that I didn't pay attention to who sponsored it and assumed you thought Zanas was still a Legislator, since Velasco hasn't been for quite some time. I apologize (I guess, for my inaccurate assumption and attempted clarification).

The rest is pious hot air and is certainly rich to hear, coming from the former leader of Atlasia's zombie-infused, empty-slate conservative party that is designed to win at all costs and the man who helped elect a Emperor that has failed to appoint anyone to replace a vacant seat for the past month. Don't try to spin this blatant neglect into "we care about the game". Change your 'pax, Hagrid.

There was another part of my post that I left out because I didn't want to start a fight, but it's worth including now. If you want us to "own" not making a play to replace a duly elected legislator just so we could have a majority, you can also own not raising the issue for weeks despite it being your guy who went dark.

The thing is, I've admitted it was negligent on our part. I just foresaw, correctly, that you would not own your part in the inactivity as well. I thought I'd show that your narrative isn't the only one in this equation. You'd better believe I'm spinning things, but the fact that it can be spun highlights that this situation really is a collective failure. You are spinning it against us too—get real. I do care about the game, and shouldering the entire blame just because one faction wants to make a political statement is not something I will do. If we are to combat inactivity, it is going to take effort on all of our parts. Not impromptu petty jibes in the thread where we're meant to specifically discuss a gun control bill.

[Dereich]

Velasco wrote the bill. I know who the legislators are. It is not absurd to ask the original sponsor to come in to defend his bill.

Also, my party isn't intent on improving our fortunes using technicalities. All of us should have been more on the ball with the Zanas situation, just for the sake of the region. Not for the sake of "winning Atlasia." I shouldn't be surprised that that's how you measure virtually everything to do with this game, but sometimes blame and cheap jabs don't count for much.

Anyway, yeah. I contacted him the other night to see where he was at with the game. We all want the best here, but it would be good to have a more active legislature.

Don't be such a prick. I'll admit that I didn't pay attention to who sponsored it and assumed you thought Zanas was still a Legislator, since Velasco hasn't been for quite some time. I apologize (I guess, for my inaccurate assumption and attempted clarification).

The rest is pious hot air and is certainly rich to hear, coming from the former leader of Atlasia's zombie-infused, empty-slate conservative party that is designed to win at all costs and the man who helped elect a Emperor that has failed to appoint anyone to replace a vacant seat for the past month. Don't try to spin this blatant neglect into "we care about the game". Change your 'pax, Hagrid.

I've PMed Zanas a few times. He's been an active legislator in the past so I've been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I know just as well as you do that he's had IRL troubles and I've been acting under the thought that life problems shouldn't immediately disqualify you from staying in office. Just because I haven't appointed someone to his office doesn't mean I don't care or am not paying attention to the situation. It's a game AG, there is no need for gotchas because someone is having a rough time.

[Adam Griffin]

There was another part of my post that I left out because I didn't want to start a fight, but it's worth including now. If you want us to "own" not making a play to replace a duly elected legislator just so we could have a majority, you can also own not raising the issue for weeks despite it being your guy who went dark.

The thing is, I've admitted it was negligent on our part. I just foresaw, correctly, that you would not own your part in the inactivity as well. I thought I'd show that your narrative isn't the only one in this equation. You'd better believe I'm spinning things, but the fact that it can be spun highlights that this situation really is a collective failure. You are spinning it against us too—get real. I do care about the game, and shouldering the entire blame just because one faction wants to make a political statement is not something I will do. If we are to combat inactivity, it is going to take effort on all of our parts. Not impromptu petty jibes in the thread where we're meant to specifically discuss a gun control bill.

Uh oh, now who's assuming? I said that the seat has been vacant for one month and asked if anyone had been paying attention. I was not aware that the seat had been vacant for one month; after I saw this thread, I did some basic digging and found out in about three minutes. That's all it takes, really.

I've PMed Zanas a few times. He's been an active legislator in the past so I've been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I know just as well as you do that he's had IRL troubles and I've been acting under the thought that life problems shouldn't immediately disqualify you from staying in office. Just because I haven't appointed someone to his office doesn't mean I don't care or am not paying attention to the situation. It's a game AG, there is no need for gotchas because someone is having a rough time.

That's great, but interpreting law how you wish in this respect is not valid. The IDS Legislature passed the aforementioned legislation that was signed by the Emperor. The seat is vacant: period. It's obviously not ideal for one of my own party members to have to go through this, and I have talked to Zanas since his more or less departure and I can assure you that his personal situation has nothing to do with the attention now being shed on this cause. If I had noticed this a few weeks ago, I'd have been raising hell then, too.

Also, something on-topic:

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I am opening a vote on cloture. Please vote aye, nay or abstain.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Aye

[Supersonic]

Aye.

[Zanas]

Is Velasco Zanas around to speak to some of the issues I raised? Don't want to be the activity police, but it would be nice to get this show on the road at some point.

He went through a divorce shortly after swearing in in August. If we go by Section 9 of the Consolidated IDS Legislature Rules and Procedures, then his seat has been vacant since ~September 10th.

Not quite a divorce yet, mind you. I hope it won't get to that. But yeah I was assuming y'all would assume my seat was vacant after my not posting for 7 consecutive days, well maybe not after 7 days sharp, but 10 or 12. That's why I hadn't resigned in the beginning, and frankly I was not well at all, and after that it just slipped my mind.

Now I have officially resigned, and Dereich has asked my opinion on who should replace me. As I haven't been around for a month, I don't really know who's active down South that's kind of left-wing and that's not already a Legislator. Maybe go with Griffin for the remainder of the term, then Labor can put up its own home-grown candidate in the next election ?

Have a great time y'all !

[Adam Griffin]

Aye to cloture

Aye to Zanas' good spirit

[Hash]

Aye for cloture.

With 4 in favour and one not voting, there are enough votes for cloture. A final vote is now open on this bill. Please vote aye, nay or abstain.

[Enderman]

Abstain

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Nay

[Adam Griffin]

Aye

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AYE

[Velasco]

Velasco wrote the bill. I know who the legislators are. It is not absurd to ask the original sponsor to come in to defend his bill.

My apologies, Hagrid and Dereich, I've been quite busy. I wouldn't mind if you wanted to amend certain parts of the bill. However, it seems that Hagrid doesn't like regulation in itself. Months ago, SJoyce sponsored a bill on firearms in the opposite direction; it would have been in contradiction with the federal legislation.