Government shutdown, whats it like where you live? Share your horror stories pls

[memphis]

People who earn minimum wage usually don't have credit cards or bank accounts. They get a prepaid card (with very high fees) from the employer at hiring and money is direct deposited on that card on payday. If they were able to magically squirrel away a months savings, they would lose access to gov't benefits like food stamps. That is largely theoretical though. These folks' lives are perpetual financial emergencies, which is why they have awful credit, which is why they can't get credit cards or bank accounts.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

People who earn minimum wage usually don't have credit cards or bank accounts. They get a prepaid card (with very high fees) from the employer at hiring and money is direct deposited on that card on payday. If they were able to magically squirrel away a months savings, they would lose access to gov't benefits like food stamps.

Not quite. Someone working minimum wage would, if they could, be able to squirrel away one month's income before reaching a level that would disqualify them from food stamps. They just wouldn't be able to squirrel away two months' income.

However, federal government employees make more than minimum wage.  So ascribing to them the credit problems of the working poor is disingenuous.

[John Dibble]

Nothing local to me, but I'm sure we're all reeling in regards to the KKK rally at Gettysburg being cancelled due to the shutdown.

[Lief 🗽]

Trying to do some research for a paper, but the Library of Congress isn't working. F[inks] you Boehner.

[Nutmeg]

As an employee of the federal government, I was furloughed starting Tuesday, meaning that I am not being paid these days. I most likely won't be able to make my rent payment on November 1 unless the unlikely occurs and I receive backpay for my time missed from work (I'd use my leave days to try to recoup some of my lost paycheck(s) if I could, but that also seems unlikely). I already was furloughed one day per week all summer, which contributed to my paycheck-to-paycheck living situation.

Not to be unkind or anything, as you may have already had some other unexpected bills to attend to, but to have a less than a one-month financial safety net is pure idiocy.

I hate to sound opebo-esque (except when he's right), but in today's world most can just make it month to month, if that, especially if Nutmeg is a younger 20s-30ish fellow.  Starting out today is a bitch.

Granted, for someone working minimum wage with no benefits, a one month personal safety net may well be impossible to arrange.  But even if that safety net is nothing more than an unused portion of a credit card line of credit (which while not the best net, is better than none) I'd expect someone with a full time government job to be able to manage at least that.  Even a lowest rung GS-1 Step 1 federal employee living in an area with the smallest geographic adjustment will be making over $20,000/year plus benefits.  It would take a bit more frugality than I currently partake of, but it wouldn't be difficult for me to not only live on that, but to put some into savings. I expect Nutmeg is likely not in a bottom rung GS-1 position, so he should be making even more.  Unless Nutmeg has multiple dependents, took on way more student loans than he should have, or had some unexpected expenses already eat into his safety net, he shouldn't be at risk of being unable to pay the rent this month if he was using at least a minimum level of financial prudence.

I don't really want to go into great detail about my personal financial situation, but at my government salary, which admittedly is not minimum wage, it's hard to save up a whole lot after rent in this expensive city (and I already live in a pretty dodgy neighborhood here - there was a drive-by shooting a block from my house last weekend) and loan payments (I wish education weren't so expensive either, but to get this job, I needed a graduate degree). Had I anticipated everything would fall apart in our government, I would have been more frugal, yes, but I see now I was mistaken to believe that the federal government of the longest-surviving large democracy would continue to pay its employees. I've definitely learned a lesson and won't be so trusting in the future. It's beans and rice from here on out...

We wish you the very best, but am I wrong in thinking in past shutdowns they've always gone back and given back pay?  If they do,  you should be good for the Nov 1 rent.   Well I hope they do, certainly.

Thanks, Gramps. I appreciate that. In 1995 and 96, back pay did occur, but I am not optimistic that will happen this time, what when one side in the debate actively seeks to make federal employees out to be the bad guys in all of this.

[publicunofficial]

Olympic National Park is closed, and all of those who who live + work on the Indian reservations are EXTREMELY unhappy.

[LastVoter]

As an employee of the federal government, I was furloughed starting Tuesday, meaning that I am not being paid these days. I most likely won't be able to make my rent payment on November 1 unless the unlikely occurs and I receive backpay for my time missed from work (I'd use my leave days to try to recoup some of my lost paycheck(s) if I could, but that also seems unlikely). I already was furloughed one day per week all summer, which contributed to my paycheck-to-paycheck living situation.

Not to be unkind or anything, as you may have already had some other unexpected bills to attend to, but to have a less than a one-month financial safety net is pure idiocy.

I hate to sound opebo-esque (except when he's right), but in today's world most can just make it month to month, if that, especially if Nutmeg is a younger 20s-30ish fellow.  Starting out today is a bitch.

 Granted, for someone working minimum wage with no benefits, a one month personal safety net may well be impossible to arrange.  But even if that safety net is nothing more than an unused portion of a credit card line of credit (which while not the best net, is better than none) I'd expect someone with a full time government job to be able to manage at least that.  Even a lowest rung GS-1 Step 1 federal employee living in an area with the smallest geographic adjustment will be making over $20,000/year plus benefits.  It would take a bit more frugality than I currently partake of, but it wouldn't be difficult for me to not only live on that, but to put some into savings. I expect Nutmeg is likely not in a bottom rung GS-1 position, so he should be making even more.  Unless Nutmeg has multiple dependents, took on way more student loans than he should have, or had some unexpected expenses already eat into his safety net, he shouldn't be at risk of being unable to pay the rent this month if he was using at least a minimum level of financial prudence.

Remembering what it was like to be a dirt dirt dirt poor working poor, I can't judge.  I just can't.

Telling the poors what to do is a favorite atlas pasttime.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I've definitely learned a lesson and won't be so trusting in the future. It's beans and rice from here on out...

At least it's healthier than having meat everyday.

[Rooney]

If you give me a week I might thing of one thing. No promises.

[patrick1]

Ernest, if someone has 70k in grad debt that is like 880 or something over a ten year term. If that person has a rather modest rent of 1200/month that is approaching 25k total. That alone would be like 100% of the salary for an entry level position as say a customs agent.  You get locality pay but the cost of living in DC or NY is not comparable to South Carolina.

[angus]

It's hard to take you seriously with that big red shield.  I just thought you should know that. 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Ernest, if someone has 70k in grad debt that is like 880 or something over a ten year term. If that person has a rather modest rent of 1200/month that is approaching 25k total. That alone would be like 100% of the salary for an entry level position as say a customs agent.  You get locality pay but the cost of living in DC or NY is not comparable to South Carolina.

Then perhaps people shouldn't be so eager to incur student debt? Or perhaps so eager to live in high-cost areas?  Granted, education is considerably more expensive than it was when I was going through school.  And while I'm not saying this is the case for Nutmeg, since I don't know his particulars, but if you plan to go into government service the generally racking up extra student debt by going to a private college instead of a in-state public school is a waste of money. (The idea of racking up debt in grad school also seems strange to me, altho I realize it depends on the discipline.  Pretty much anyone admitted into grad school in the discipline I was in would be accepted for a teaching or research assistantship that covered the cost of tuition plus paid a modest stipend.)

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Ernest, if someone has 70k in grad debt that is like 880 or something over a ten year term. If that person has a rather modest rent of 1200/month that is approaching 25k total. That alone would be like 100% of the salary for an entry level position as say a customs agent.  You get locality pay but the cost of living in DC or NY is not comparable to South Carolina.

Then perhaps people shouldn't be so eager to incur student debt? Or perhaps so eager to live in high-cost areas?  Granted, education is considerably more expensive than it was when I was going through school.  And while I'm not saying this is the case for Nutmeg, since I don't know his particulars, but if you plan to go into government service the generally racking up extra student debt by going to a private college instead of a in-state public school is a waste of money. (The idea of racking up debt in grad school also seems strange to me, altho I realize it depends on the discipline.  Pretty much anyone admitted into grad school in the discipline I was in would be accepted for a teaching or research assistantship that covered the cost of tuition plus paid a modest stipend.)

This would probably be a good time to abandon your attempt to judge a federal worker based on (1) a life choice about their future they were forced to make at age 16-17 under heavy societal pressure and (2) live in Washington DC so he can be a federal worker. Everyone's not as smart as you are with money. We get it.

[Sbane]

Ernest, if someone has 70k in grad debt that is like 880 or something over a ten year term. If that person has a rather modest rent of 1200/month that is approaching 25k total. That alone would be like 100% of the salary for an entry level position as say a customs agent.  You get locality pay but the cost of living in DC or NY is not comparable to South Carolina.

Then perhaps people shouldn't be so eager to incur student debt?

This statement is more out of touch than a composite of everything Mitt Romney has ever said.

[Nutmeg]

I've definitely learned a lesson and won't be so trusting in the future. It's beans and rice from here on out...

At least it's healthier than having meat everyday.

I last ate meat 16 years ago.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

This would probably be a good time to abandon your attempt to judge a federal worker based on (1) a life choice about their future they were forced to make at age 16-17 under heavy societal pressure and (2) live in Washington DC so he can be a federal worker. Everyone's not as smart as you are with money. We get it.

Well, I would hope a 16-17 year old would not be forced to make that decision on their own. As for being a federal worker, only about one-sixth of the Federal workforce works in the DC area.  Granted, some federal jobs are more concentrated there.  Indeed, too concentrated.  We really ought to move more government jobs outside the beltway.

Ernest, if someone has 70k in grad debt that is like 880 or something over a ten year term. If that person has a rather modest rent of 1200/month that is approaching 25k total. That alone would be like 100% of the salary for an entry level position as say a customs agent.  You get locality pay but the cost of living in DC or NY is not comparable to South Carolina.

Then perhaps people shouldn't be so eager to incur student debt?

This statement is more out of touch than a composite of everything Mitt Romney has ever said.

Out of context, perhaps, but my full quote went on to give a fairly basic way to incur less student debt while still going to a quality school, so no it's not like Mitt.  Besides, Mitt would have had a problem comprehending why Nutmeg doesn't simply ask his folks for ten thousand or so to tide him over until this blows over. Plus, there are plenty of other ways I didn't mention that people could take to cut college costs, but which many do not either out of ignorance or vanity.

Beyond personal choices, there are plenty of ways we could as a society cut education costs that we unfortunately do not pursue, but obviously discussing that would be going even more off topic than this thread has gone.

[Nutmeg]

The sad thing is that most people in my line of work are far less well off than I am, with far more student and credit card debt (none of the latter for me, thankfully). As Gramps succinctly observed,

Starting out today is a bitch.

My colleagues have little hope of ever paying off their debts if they continue working for the good people of these United States. Systemic issues, for sure.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Just as an aside: It should be noted that American workers are more productive than ever and working longer hours than ever, so it's disingenuous to say that somehow, Americans are not working hard enough. And many of the benefits that were given by employers in the past have largely disappeared. And like Memphis said, the working poor's lives are incredibly stressful, financially and otherwise. They have no money to save; many are deeply in debt at this point.

The productivity gains made by Americans went almost entirely to the top. The working poor and even middle income Americans have seen economic losses across the board, in real terms. The Great Recession exacerbated this incredible inequality. Yet politicians argue about whether to keep the government funded?

We need more spending at this point, not less. Stimulate demand-after all, we are a consumption based economy. Rich people will whine about having to pay higher taxes, but they've gotten such a sweet deal out of the same system that has made so many others miserable...I just can't take the whining seriously.

[Alcon]

This morning I woke up and I was like, "well, I could find out what's actually happening, but the availability heuristic is so much easier!" and then I watched tv.  Apparently a lot of people are sleeping with their identical twin's boyfriend these days

[Sbane]

This would probably be a good time to abandon your attempt to judge a federal worker based on (1) a life choice about their future they were forced to make at age 16-17 under heavy societal pressure and (2) live in Washington DC so he can be a federal worker. Everyone's not as smart as you are with money. We get it.

Well, I would hope a 16-17 year old would not be forced to make that decision on their own. As for being a federal worker, only about one-sixth of the Federal workforce works in the DC area.  Granted, some federal jobs are more concentrated there.  Indeed, too concentrated.  We really ought to move more government jobs outside the beltway.

Ernest, if someone has 70k in grad debt that is like 880 or something over a ten year term. If that person has a rather modest rent of 1200/month that is approaching 25k total. That alone would be like 100% of the salary for an entry level position as say a customs agent.  You get locality pay but the cost of living in DC or NY is not comparable to South Carolina.

Then perhaps people shouldn't be so eager to incur student debt?

This statement is more out of touch than a composite of everything Mitt Romney has ever said.

Out of context, perhaps, but my full quote went on to give a fairly basic way to incur less student debt while still going to a quality school, so no it's not like Mitt.  Besides, Mitt would have had a problem comprehending why Nutmeg doesn't simply ask his folks for ten thousand or so to tide him over until this blows over. Plus, there are plenty of other ways I didn't mention that people could take to cut college costs, but which many do not either out of ignorance or vanity.

Beyond personal choices, there are plenty of ways we could as a society cut education costs that we unfortunately do not pursue, but obviously discussing that would be going even more off topic than this thread has gone.

Sigh. As someone who is EXTREMELY fortunate and has well off parents who are loaning their son money, let me say once again that you are out of touch.

And perhaps I should have included your whole quote, because that entire post was out of touch. I debated doing it, but I didn't so I could make a quicker point. I was wrong. People sometimes don't have the choice of going to a public university because there aren't enough. And even if they go to one, tuition is still very high because certain people (Republicans, let's be fair) have cut the amount of subsidies to such individuals(of course they won't cut spending to their OLD, white base!). How do you know Nutmeg went to a private university? You are just assuming these things, aren't you? And it is unfortunate that those with graduate degrees don't get paid at least 50k a year.  But that's the new America, True Federalist. If you have ever wondered why young people vote so Democratic (socialist!!!!!1111), you have got the answer here.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

And it is unfortunate that those with graduate degrees don't get paid at least 50k a year.

What's unfortunate is that we've made graduate degrees a requirement for such jobs.  As a society we tend to way overcredential professions.  For instance, I truly doubt that school teachers with master's degrees are better teachers than the ones who got three year degrees from normal schools back when my aunt was going to the Maryland State Teachers College at Towson. (By the time my mother went there, it was a four year degree.) Yet in many subject areas of teaching, you need that master's to get hired these days, or at least to get hired by a desirable school to work at.

Also, when we headed off into this tangent, I wasn't necessarily assuming that Nutmeg had made any particular personal choices, but was pointing out commonly made choices that increase the cost of getting a good education.

[Sbane]

And it is unfortunate that those with graduate degrees don't get paid at least 50k a year.

What's unfortunate is that we've made graduate degrees a requirement for such jobs.  As a society we tend to way overcredential professions.  For instance, I truly doubt that school teachers with master's degrees are better teachers than the ones who got three year degrees from normal schools back when my aunt was going to the Maryland State Teachers College at Towson. (By the time my mother went there, it was a four year degree.) Yet in many subject areas of teaching, you need that master's to get hired these days, or at least to get hired by a desirable school to work at.

Also, when we headed off into this tangent, I wasn't necessarily assuming that Nutmeg had made any particular personal choices, but was pointing out commonly made choices that increase the cost of getting a good education.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but being younger than you, I have to live with the reality of today. Saying that someone does not need post graduate education to get a good job today is out of touch, regardless of whether or not that is how the world should be. You are looking at this situation theoretically, I am looking at it practically.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

And it is unfortunate that those with graduate degrees don't get paid at least 50k a year.

What's unfortunate is that we've made graduate degrees a requirement for such jobs.  As a society we tend to way overcredential professions.  For instance, I truly doubt that school teachers with master's degrees are better teachers than the ones who got three year degrees from normal schools back when my aunt was going to the Maryland State Teachers College at Towson. (By the time my mother went there, it was a four year degree.) Yet in many subject areas of teaching, you need that master's to get hired these days, or at least to get hired by a desirable school to work at.

Also, when we headed off into this tangent, I wasn't necessarily assuming that Nutmeg had made any particular personal choices, but was pointing out commonly made choices that increase the cost of getting a good education.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but being younger than you, I have to live with the reality of today. Saying that someone does not need post graduate education to get a good job today is out of touch, regardless of whether or not that is how the world should be. You are looking at this situation theoretically, I am looking at it practically.

I never said that they don't need it, just that they shouldn't.

[Sbane]

And it is unfortunate that those with graduate degrees don't get paid at least 50k a year.

What's unfortunate is that we've made graduate degrees a requirement for such jobs.  As a society we tend to way overcredential professions.  For instance, I truly doubt that school teachers with master's degrees are better teachers than the ones who got three year degrees from normal schools back when my aunt was going to the Maryland State Teachers College at Towson. (By the time my mother went there, it was a four year degree.) Yet in many subject areas of teaching, you need that master's to get hired these days, or at least to get hired by a desirable school to work at.

Also, when we headed off into this tangent, I wasn't necessarily assuming that Nutmeg had made any particular personal choices, but was pointing out commonly made choices that increase the cost of getting a good education.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but being younger than you, I have to live with the reality of today. Saying that someone does not need post graduate education to get a good job today is out of touch, regardless of whether or not that is how the world should be. You are looking at this situation theoretically, I am looking at it practically.

I never said that they don't need it, just that they shouldn't.

I agree with you on that, but that is just a very theoretical point of view. The fact is that even those with public, in state graduate tuition need to find a way to gather about 18k in tuition plus living expenses. I don't see how you can get that without taking out loans. Some can get help from their parents, but what if they can't?

[opebo]

And it is unfortunate that those with graduate degrees don't get paid at least 50k a year.

What's unfortunate is that we've made graduate degrees a requirement for such jobs.  As a society we tend to way overcredential professions.

You're both right in spirit:

Ordinary jobs without college diploma but only technical training should pay $70,000/year.

University diploma jobs should pay the same - $70,000/year.

Jobs requiring graduate degrees should pay, yes, you guessed it - $70,000/year. 

There's plenty of differentiation in the jobs themselves - the technical guy has to get dirty and obey instructions, the egghead gets to stand at a podium and engage in self-aggrandizing puffery - so that there's really no need to pay them any differently.  The egghead-puffery is plenty of reward for the tiny amount of 'extra effort' involved.