Was globalization the #1 killer of the "American Dream?"
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  Was globalization the #1 killer of the "American Dream?"
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Author Topic: Was globalization the #1 killer of the "American Dream?"  (Read 3270 times)
sg0508
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« on: October 06, 2013, 08:25:42 PM »

After WWII, it was easy pickings.  We were the only man left standing. The rest of the world was in shambles.  All of the businesses were ours, other nations bought our goods, the jobs were plentiful and it was possible to own your own business, keep your nose clean and live a decent life. 

Fast forward to the 90s. The tech-boom happened.  The U.S. quickly got exposed.

1) The global supply of labor ballooned.  It will now greatly exceed the demand going forward.
2) The growth in jobs in the mid to late 90s was due to the immediate need to fill jobs in a rapidly growing economy.
3) Technology naturally eliminated the need for jobs.  Now, one person can do the job that 4-5 used to do.
4) The world "shrunk".
5) Cheap, cheap, cheap.  NAFTA allowed millions of jobs to move offshore for a fraction of the cost.  That's all most big companies care about.
6) American business became mostly corporate and less about small business.  The $$$ talks now.
7) Our education system is getting exposed.  Other systems seem to work better, require more (i.e. multiple languages before going to high school).
Cool Our work-ethic as a nation seems to have declined.  People don't really want to work hard anymore. 
9) Gen Y has little clue as a whole as to how to save, earn a living, etc.  Some do, but many don't.
10) The Boomers killed us.  They can't exit the job market now and our healthcare costs keep rising.  Soc. Security will be insolvent by the time they're gone.
11) It's pretty simple...the supply of labor exceeds the demand and since Americans are more expensive and don't want to work as hard, it makes it less attractive to hire us.

Did globalization really kill the American dream, or am I simplifying this to much?
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Link
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 10:55:46 PM »

Our work-ethic as a nation seems to have declined.  People don't really want to work hard anymore.

You looked at this graph and determined that's what the problem is?

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opebo
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 06:34:21 AM »

'Globalization' is only a result of State policy - the State policy which kills poors is capitalism, sg.
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sg0508
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 08:23:16 AM »

No question about it. As the number of skilled workers declines and the supply of overall labor increases, wages/salaries will fall, which is exacty what's happening.
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Beet
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 09:06:42 AM »

Most of what you say is on point, except for the part about "work ethic." Actually it's a virtue that we're working less, albeit we still work far more than the Europeans, and far less than the Asians. The Japanese are very hard workers yet what has it gotten them? 20 years of fading into the sunset. Be a workaholic if that is what you enjoy, society needs people like you. But for most people the point of life is to enjoy leisure.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 09:16:10 AM »

lol no.

May I ask you, who do you think was buying a lot of the American made products due to the golden years of US manufacturing?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 09:58:43 AM »

lol no.

May I ask you, who do you think was buying a lot of the American made products due to the golden years of US manufacturing?

Even done to the god-awful cars. Not many, but more than is pleasant to think about.
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sg0508
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 11:05:30 AM »

And, the number of skilled workers continues to decline.  Most workers who were considered to be "skilled" 15-20 years back are nothing more than the common churn/burn and replaceable Joe Schmo.  Thus, he/she has no bargaining power any longer in the job market.  Then add those unemployed, many who are structurally unemployed and this is where we're at.

Part of the reason you see some of the wealth inequality now that you do is that the skilled workers have all the power and make the rules.  The rest simply have to say "yes" to whatever they're told, or they're out, but they're not going anyhwere.  The best most of the "rest" can do is to hope to run in place.

I honestly believe the only way to fix this is to completely reform our education system so that American workers meet the demands and capabilities of those abroad.  Of course, cultural differences play into it and yes, those in school now have to get off their behinds and work hard, very hard.  The days of being lackadaiscal and still being okay are long over.
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opebo
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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 12:12:34 PM »

Even done to the god-awful cars. Not many, but more than is pleasant to think about.

Come on, Al, you're British.  You surely can't be on a high-horse about automobiles, can you?
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opebo
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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2013, 12:14:57 PM »

Even done to the god-awful cars. Not many, but more than is pleasant to think about.

Come on, Al, you're British.  You surely can't be on a high-horse about automobiles, can you?
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memphis
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 12:57:35 PM »

The #1 killer of the American Dream has been the marked increase in inequality. There's no demand for anything because all the money is in the hands of a few people. Demand is not just wishing and hoping. It's having the dollars to back it up.
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opebo
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 03:55:03 PM »

The #1 killer of the American Dream has been the marked increase in inequality. There's no demand for anything because all the money is in the hands of a few people. Demand is not just wishing and hoping. It's having the dollars to back it up.

And all the dollars are still there, real GDP still being produced every day, its just being hoarded by the class that needs a guillotining.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 06:43:57 PM »

Even done to the god-awful cars. Not many, but more than is pleasant to think about.

Come on, Al, you're British.  You surely can't be on a high-horse about automobiles, can you?

Is this is or is this not a thing of genius and beauty?



Consider also this great classic of automobile design:



Or perhaps this noted example of industrial perfection:



Innovation itself.
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barfbag
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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 02:29:22 PM »

Globalization is how our world works. We're using the internet and therefore partaking in the participation of supporting globalization. I always get a kick out of people who use the internet to organize protests against globalization.
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opebo
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« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 03:04:30 PM »

Globalization is how our world works. We're using the internet and therefore partaking in the participation of supporting globalization. I always get a kick out of people who use the internet to organize protests against globalization.

You can pick and choose, BB.  Talk to a Chinaman, but don't buy his ping-pong balls.

Al - about British cars - I actually quite like some of them, the middle one you pictured is quite cute.  And, they weren't nearly as bad as their negative reputation.

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barfbag
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« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2013, 03:41:44 PM »

Globalization is how our world works. We're using the internet and therefore partaking in the participation of supporting globalization. I always get a kick out of people who use the internet to organize protests against globalization.

You can pick and choose, BB.  Talk to a Chinaman, but don't buy his ping-pong balls.

Al - about British cars - I actually quite like some of them, the middle one you pictured is quite cute.  And, they weren't nearly as bad as their negative reputation.



Well we should be reevaluating our trade policies every two years and placing tariffs on countries that manipulate currency. This would make foreign products more expensive in the U.S. causing more American products to be bought here and possibly even countries like China having to rely on their own consumers to buy their products.
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opebo
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« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2013, 03:51:04 PM »

Globalization is how our world works. We're using the internet and therefore partaking in the participation of supporting globalization. I always get a kick out of people who use the internet to organize protests against globalization.

You can pick and choose, BB.  Talk to a Chinaman, but don't buy his ping-pong balls.

Al - about British cars - I actually quite like some of them, the middle one you pictured is quite cute.  And, they weren't nearly as bad as their negative reputation.



Well we should be reevaluating our trade policies every two years and placing tariffs on countries that manipulate currency. This would make foreign products more expensive in the U.S. causing more American products to be bought here and possibly even countries like China having to rely on their own consumers to buy their products.

Currencies?  Wage labor rates are something like 1/20th of American levels, bbag.  currency manipulation is unimportant.
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barfbag
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« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2013, 03:59:39 PM »

Globalization is how our world works. We're using the internet and therefore partaking in the participation of supporting globalization. I always get a kick out of people who use the internet to organize protests against globalization.

You can pick and choose, BB.  Talk to a Chinaman, but don't buy his ping-pong balls.

Al - about British cars - I actually quite like some of them, the middle one you pictured is quite cute.  And, they weren't nearly as bad as their negative reputation.



Well we should be reevaluating our trade policies every two years and placing tariffs on countries that manipulate currency. This would make foreign products more expensive in the U.S. causing more American products to be bought here and possibly even countries like China having to rely on their own consumers to buy their products.

Currencies?  Wage labor rates are something like 1/20th of American levels, bbag.  currency manipulation is unimportant.

Currency manipulation as in their products are sold here for more than what they're worth there.
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opebo
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« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2013, 04:09:45 PM »

Currencies?  Wage labor rates are something like 1/20th of American levels, bbag.  currency manipulation is unimportant.

Currency manipulation as in their products are sold here for more than what they're worth there.

Think you've got that backwards, buddy.  The idea of currency manipulation is to make products cheaper in the target country.
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barfbag
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2013, 04:29:23 PM »

Currencies?  Wage labor rates are something like 1/20th of American levels, bbag.  currency manipulation is unimportant.

Currency manipulation as in their products are sold here for more than what they're worth there.

Think you've got that backwards, buddy.  The idea of currency manipulation is to make products cheaper in the target country.

My bad I typed it wrong. We need to have tariffs to combat that.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2013, 09:41:38 PM »

Our work-ethic as a nation seems to have declined.  People don't really want to work hard anymore.

You looked at this graph and determined that's what the problem is?



How "hard" someone works and how productive they are are different things. The first is arguably subjective. Ask anyone if they "work hard" and they'll tell you they do, whether they work in a coalmine for 9 hours a day or sit in a toll booth collecting change or sit at a terminal in a Goldman Sachs office.

If I'm Bill Clinton, I can get paid $10,000+ to speak to a roomful of businessmen for less than half an hour. I could speak to them about anything - any number of anecdotes of things I've done and people I've met over the course of my life. The actual effort involved in that probably is not taxing for him. He's not spending hours preparing for the speech. He just has to show up, maybe look over a few cards an aide prepared, and be Bill.

If I'm a McDonald's employee, I can spend an hour walking around a kitchen, making fries, burgers, milkshakes and a number of other food items, dealing with customers, accepting payments, and get paid $8 for that hour of work.

Bill made $10,000 in 25 minutes. The McDonald's worker made $8 in 60 minutes.

Which one is more productive? Bill, obviously. But which one "worked harder" for the amount in question?
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Link
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2013, 05:03:40 PM »

Our work-ethic as a nation seems to have declined.  People don't really want to work hard anymore.

You looked at this graph and determined that's what the problem is?



How "hard" someone works and how productive they are are different things. The first is arguably subjective.

Not only subjective but he didn't provide any data to support his statement.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2013, 07:05:56 PM »

I see nobody has yet addressed my obvious point.
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The Free North
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2013, 02:54:14 PM »

'Globalization' is only a result of State policy - the State policy which kills poors is capitalism, sg.

You are a special kind of stupid
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Torie
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« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2013, 04:16:41 PM »
« Edited: October 14, 2013, 04:19:25 PM by Torie »

lol no.

May I ask you, who do you think was buying a lot of the American made products due to the golden years of US manufacturing?

You didn't ask me, but it was mostly Americans during that period. The amount of foreign trade as a percentage of the GDP was remarkably and startling low. It surprised me when I first saw the figure back before rocks cooled.

What it takes to achieve the perceived American dream costs more money than it once did. Hyperbole, but everyone wants a face lift. Everybody has a cell phone and cable TV as it were. And what medical technology has done to the cost of health care. Growing inequality is also not conducive to dream achieving either. Internationalization also does not help in the sense that things inherently scare cost a lot more money. The mansion my parents sold in 1964 in the Bel Air neighborhood of Los Angeles was worth maybe about 900K in today's dollars (less than my 2,500 square foot tract home on a postage stamp sized lot is currently worth). Now excluding the improvements done to the place since, it goes for about say 6 million. And a house on Newport Bay in Orange County worth that in 1964, would go for about 15 million today. It's a global market, catering to global demand.
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