Austrian Elections & Politics - Version 1.0

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

the PVV has two different wings from what I remember - Wilders is an economic liberal, but his coalition contains "fiscal populists" or whatever they like to be called.

(and would an "economic liberal" really support something like a tax on headscarves as Wilders proposed once?)

I think we probably should start a thread for the municipal Dutch elections soon, so I don't derail poor Tender's thread.

@ Tender, you never answered my question. Is there any chance of another FPOVP coalition?

[Tender Branson]

@ Tender, you never answered my question. Is there any chance of another FPOVP coalition?

Not long ago, I have written a lengthy PM about this issue to a poster who PMed me about it.

Too bad I have already deleted the message.

In short: As of right now, there's no chance of another FPÖVP or ÖVP-FPÖ coalition, simply because of the previous coalition that was a fu**ing disaster and because the FPÖ is so toxic nationally (the Left would stage massive protests) and internationally (the EU countries would go nuts again). Also, there's the problem with the FPÖ's Nazi-statements here and then. In recent years, FPÖ-leader Strache has looked to make the FPÖ much more moderate and "mainstream", taking a tough line against anyone who makes such statements. But the risk still remains and the ÖVP does rather prefer a coalition with someone else.

There are also some areas where the FPÖ and ÖVP do not agree a lot: The FPÖ (like the SPÖ) wants a millionaire tax or higher taxes for high-income earners, the ÖVP is categorically opposed. The FPÖ wants basically no further immigration, the ÖVP wants as many (skilled) immigrants as the economy demands. The FPÖ opposes TTIP and TISA, the ÖVP favours it. And so on.

Of course, you can never rule an FPÖVP coalition out, but 2018 is a long way to go and under Mitterlehner (ÖVP-leader) it's really unlikely.

[politicus]

@ Tender, you never answered my question. Is there any chance of another FPOVP coalition?

Not long ago, I have written a lengthy PM about this issue to a poster who PMed me about it.

Too bad I have already deleted the message.

In short: As of right now, there's no chance of another FPÖVP or ÖVP-FPÖ coalition, simply because of the previous coalition that was a fu**ing disaster and because the FPÖ is so toxic nationally (the Left would stage massive protests) and internationally (the EU countries would go nuts again). Also, there's the problem with the FPÖ's Nazi-statements here and then. In recent years, FPÖ-leader Strache has looked to make the FPÖ much more moderate and "mainstream", taking a tough line against anyone who makes such statements. But the risk still remains and the ÖVP does rather prefer a coalition with someone else.

There are also some areas where the FPÖ and ÖVP do not agree a lot: The FPÖ (like the SPÖ) wants a millionaire tax or higher taxes for high-income earners, the ÖVP is categorically opposed. The FPÖ wants basically no further immigration, the ÖVP wants as many (skilled) immigrants as the economy demands. The FPÖ opposes TTIP and TISA, the ÖVP favours it. And so on.

Of course, you can never rule an FPÖVP coalition out, but 2018 is a long way to go and under Mitterlehner (ÖVP-leader) it's really unlikely.

Any chance of SPÖ-FPÖ ever becoming a possibility? (say, within a generation or so)

How right wing is FPÖ on economics and labour relations in their present incarnation?

[Tender Branson]

@ Tender, you never answered my question. Is there any chance of another FPOVP coalition?

Not long ago, I have written a lengthy PM about this issue to a poster who PMed me about it.

Too bad I have already deleted the message.

In short: As of right now, there's no chance of another FPÖVP or ÖVP-FPÖ coalition, simply because of the previous coalition that was a fu**ing disaster and because the FPÖ is so toxic nationally (the Left would stage massive protests) and internationally (the EU countries would go nuts again). Also, there's the problem with the FPÖ's Nazi-statements here and then. In recent years, FPÖ-leader Strache has looked to make the FPÖ much more moderate and "mainstream", taking a tough line against anyone who makes such statements. But the risk still remains and the ÖVP does rather prefer a coalition with someone else.

There are also some areas where the FPÖ and ÖVP do not agree a lot: The FPÖ (like the SPÖ) wants a millionaire tax or higher taxes for high-income earners, the ÖVP is categorically opposed. The FPÖ wants basically no further immigration, the ÖVP wants as many (skilled) immigrants as the economy demands. The FPÖ opposes TTIP and TISA, the ÖVP favours it. And so on.

Of course, you can never rule an FPÖVP coalition out, but 2018 is a long way to go and under Mitterlehner (ÖVP-leader) it's really unlikely.

Any chance of SPÖ-FPÖ ever becoming a possibility? (say, within a generation or so)

How right wing is FPÖ on economics and labour relations in their present incarnation?

A) I'm no fortune teller, but the chances are quite low. Unless the SPÖ kicks Faymann's butt and votes in a new, more FPÖ-friendly leader.

B) The FPÖ is not right wing in economics and labour relations, but rather left-wing.

[politicus]

@ Tender, you never answered my question. Is there any chance of another FPOVP coalition?

Not long ago, I have written a lengthy PM about this issue to a poster who PMed me about it.

Too bad I have already deleted the message.

In short: As of right now, there's no chance of another FPÖVP or ÖVP-FPÖ coalition, simply because of the previous coalition that was a fu**ing disaster and because the FPÖ is so toxic nationally (the Left would stage massive protests) and internationally (the EU countries would go nuts again). Also, there's the problem with the FPÖ's Nazi-statements here and then. In recent years, FPÖ-leader Strache has looked to make the FPÖ much more moderate and "mainstream", taking a tough line against anyone who makes such statements. But the risk still remains and the ÖVP does rather prefer a coalition with someone else.

There are also some areas where the FPÖ and ÖVP do not agree a lot: The FPÖ (like the SPÖ) wants a millionaire tax or higher taxes for high-income earners, the ÖVP is categorically opposed. The FPÖ wants basically no further immigration, the ÖVP wants as many (skilled) immigrants as the economy demands. The FPÖ opposes TTIP and TISA, the ÖVP favours it. And so on.

Of course, you can never rule an FPÖVP coalition out, but 2018 is a long way to go and under Mitterlehner (ÖVP-leader) it's really unlikely.

Any chance of SPÖ-FPÖ ever becoming a possibility? (say, within a generation or so)

How right wing is FPÖ on economics and labour relations in their present incarnation?

A) I'm no fortune teller, but the chances are quite low. Unless the SPÖ kicks Faymann's butt and votes in a new, more FPÖ-friendly leader.

B) The FPÖ is not right wing in economics and labour relations, but rather left-wing.

Nah, I wasn't asking you to look in the crystal bowl, I was just curious if the situation was parallel to Denmark with a so-called right wing populist party which in reality is pursuing economic, welfare & labour market policies quite similar to the SDs and some talk about a possible coalition "when the present generation of SD leaders are gone".

[Tender Branson]

@ Tender, you never answered my question. Is there any chance of another FPOVP coalition?

Not long ago, I have written a lengthy PM about this issue to a poster who PMed me about it.

Too bad I have already deleted the message.

In short: As of right now, there's no chance of another FPÖVP or ÖVP-FPÖ coalition, simply because of the previous coalition that was a fu**ing disaster and because the FPÖ is so toxic nationally (the Left would stage massive protests) and internationally (the EU countries would go nuts again). Also, there's the problem with the FPÖ's Nazi-statements here and then. In recent years, FPÖ-leader Strache has looked to make the FPÖ much more moderate and "mainstream", taking a tough line against anyone who makes such statements. But the risk still remains and the ÖVP does rather prefer a coalition with someone else.

There are also some areas where the FPÖ and ÖVP do not agree a lot: The FPÖ (like the SPÖ) wants a millionaire tax or higher taxes for high-income earners, the ÖVP is categorically opposed. The FPÖ wants basically no further immigration, the ÖVP wants as many (skilled) immigrants as the economy demands. The FPÖ opposes TTIP and TISA, the ÖVP favours it. And so on.

Of course, you can never rule an FPÖVP coalition out, but 2018 is a long way to go and under Mitterlehner (ÖVP-leader) it's really unlikely.

Any chance of SPÖ-FPÖ ever becoming a possibility? (say, within a generation or so)

How right wing is FPÖ on economics and labour relations in their present incarnation?

A) I'm no fortune teller, but the chances are quite low. Unless the SPÖ kicks Faymann's butt and votes in a new, more FPÖ-friendly leader.

B) The FPÖ is not right wing in economics and labour relations, but rather left-wing.

Nah, I wasn't asking you to look in the crystal bowl, I was just curious if the situation was parallel to Denmark with a so-called right wing populist party which in reality is pursuing economic, welfare & labour market policies quite similar to the SDs and some talk about a possible coalition "when the present generation of SD leaders are gone".

Yeah, the FPÖ is talking about the same things like the DPP and pretty much mirrors (or copied ?) the SPÖ's economic and labour policies.

If you want to read the whole economic/labour policy of the FPÖ, you can do so here:

http://www.fpoe.at/fileadmin/Content/portal/PDFs/_dokumente/2013_handbuch_freiheitlicher_politik_web_01.pdf

Pages 171-221.

[SNJ1985]

Any chance of SPÖ-FPÖ ever becoming a possibility? (say, within a generation or so)

There was one in the 80s, but the FPÖ was a bit different during that time.

[Tender Branson]

On Monday, the first PEGIDA march in Austria will be held in Vienna.

Nobody knows exactly how many people will show up there.

PEGIDA is not really active in Austria and only has a Facebook page (but with 11.000 likes).

The FPÖ has said it tolerates and supports the statements & goals of the PEGIDA movement, but has also said that PEGIDA is not needed in Austria because the FPÖ more or less already is PEGIDA.

[swl]

Yeah, the FPÖ is talking about the same things like the DPP and pretty much mirrors (or copied ?) the SPÖ's economic and labour policies.

I have this thing:

Austria:


Denmark:

These abbreviations are annoying... (O is the DPP and A are the social-democrats)



Based on these issues:

[Tender Branson]

More than 100 Syrian asylum seekers (mostly young men) to be housed in a luxury hotel near Salzburg City, which once housed US-President Nixon when we was here for a state visit:

http://www.news.at/a/salzburg-luxushotel-asylzentrum

Yay, that's exactly what the average Austrian taxpayer always wanted.

[swl]

Definitely better than a Swedish village surrounded by snow.

[Tender Branson]

Definitely better than a Swedish village surrounded by snow.

?

It dumped 50cm of snow here in the past days and even in and around Salzburg City (which usually gets almost no snow) it got some 20-30cm.

[Tender Branson]

So, with 30.000-40.000 asylum seekers coming to Austria this year (compared with only 90.000 in the US, which is 37x bigger than Austria) and the living quarters for these people extremely hard to find in Austrian communities, the Interior Minister Johanna Mikl-Leitner (ÖVP) has now presented plans to fast-track asylum requests for asylum seekers of safe countries of origin (such as Kosovo, Serbia, Montenegro etc.)

Under the new plan, if some person from let's say Kosovo files for asylum in Austria, the fast-track system will process the request within only 10 days and refuse it. The person will have to leave the country again.

Last year, 3.000 asylum seekers came from these safe countries (mostly from Kosovo). You need to know that in Kosovo unemployment is ca. 40% and bus organisations there organize bus travels to Austria for 50€ and these companies tell the people that if they apply for asylum in Austria they will get 600€ a month.

These economic asylum seekers are a real pain in the ass, that's why the new plans were presented a few days ago. Chancellor Faymann (SPÖ) supports these plans. Me too.

I have no problems with a decent number of asylum seekers coming to Austria each year, but I have a problem with certain recent excesses:

* Only young men coming from Syria, Iraq, AfPak and Eritrea/Somalia - while women and children stay behind in these crappy places while the men get a "luxury lifestyle" here

* Economic asylum seekers that are only coming because they are unemployed and not because they are of a war area

* The large number in general: I have no problem with 10.000 asylum seekers a year, but 30.000-40.000 is definitely too high, while other countries such as France, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Czech Rep. etc. are doing absolutely nothing in terms of taking up asylum seekers.

http://derstandard.at/2000010876961/Die-Asylplaene-der-Innenministerin-im-Detail

[swl]

Definitely better than a Swedish village surrounded by snow.

?

They are luckier than those who end up there: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=205014.0

[Zanas]

* Only young men coming from Syria, Iraq, AfPak and Eritrea/Somalia - while women and children stay behind in these crappy places while the men get a "luxury lifestyle" here

Come on, Tender, you are an honest person. Even if you hypocritically put it between "quotes", no asylum seeker anywhere gets a "luxury lifestyle" whatsoever. What are you, FPÖ ? I get the objections you have, I may share some of them, but don't fall into that kind of rhetorics. Please.

[Cranberry]

Tender, did you copy and paste that last post from Strache's Facebook page?

[windjammer]

I would love to see the OVP/SPO coalition be defeated, but the outcome risks to be even worse...

[SNJ1985]

http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/Kanzlerfrage-Ringen-um-Platz-1/174807786

FPÖ: 26%
ÖVP: 25%
SPÖ: 25%
Grünen: 13%
NEOS: 7%

No change from the last Gallup poll.

[Cranberry]

I would love to see the OVP/SPO coalition be defeated, but the outcome risks to be even worse...

Now you know how I feel... ÖVP and SPÖ have plagued this country for seventy years now, but what comes after them? Our beloved nazi parade....

[Tender Branson]

On Monday, the first PEGIDA march in Austria will be held in Vienna.

Nobody knows exactly how many people will show up there.

PEGIDA is not really active in Austria and only has a Facebook page (but with 11.000 likes).

The FPÖ has said it tolerates and supports the statements & goals of the PEGIDA movement, but has also said that PEGIDA is not needed in Austria because the FPÖ more or less already is PEGIDA.

According to the ORF, only 300 people attended the PEGIDA march in Vienna today.

There were 5.000 counter-protesters, plus 1.200 police forces.

http://wien.orf.at/news/stories/2692516

[Tender Branson]

From the Vienna PEGIDA demo today:



"I was only ordering 5 beer."

[Tender Branson]

Because some people made "Hitler-salutes" in this 1st Vienna PEGIDA march yesterday (see picture above), the police now may ban further PEGIDA marches in Vienna, because the Austrian anti-Nazi law was violated during these protests.

The police members at the march have already arrested several people who were seen making the salutes and has launched further investigations about this PEGIDA folk, by reviewing video material from the march.

http://derstandard.at/2000011205498/Nach-Hitlergruss-Weitere-Pegida-Demos-in-Wien-fraglich

It seems the people who showed up at the march yesterday is the small group of Neo-Nazis/hooligans/skinheads that you find in Vienna these days and who are further to the right of the FPÖ. Most FPÖ supporters actually do not protest on the street and attend marches such as PEGIDA, but protest at the ballot box.

[Tender Branson]

The BBC has an English summary about this PEGIDA march in Vienna yesterday:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31103221

(Actually it wasn't a "march", because the 300-strong PEGIDA-group couldn't walk on because they were blocked by the 5.000 counter-demonstrators).

[Tender Branson]

The Austrian PEGIDA-speaker has stepped down today, just 2 days after their first small march.

http://www.thelocal.at/20150204/vienna-pegida-spokesman-steps-down

[Tender Branson]

Some stuff that's happening:

* The health minister Sabine Oberhauser (SPÖ) has been diagnosed with cancer.

* The Team Stronach has a new co-leader (next to Frank Stronach) and a new parliamentary club leader, after Kathrin Nachbaur announced her resignation because she's pregnant and internal party problems.

* The Vienna city coalition (SPÖ-Greens) has apparently agreed on a new election law for future state elections, which will slightly whittle away the majority bonus for the SPÖ (under the new compromise law, the SPÖ would have gotten 2 seats less in 2010). The next state election is later this year.

* The next PEGIDA-Austria march will be held on Sunday in Linz (Upper Austria). Some leftists (like the Communists) wanted the demo banned by the police because the Vienna-one had Neo-Nazi salutes, but the Linz-police decided against it for freedom of speech purposes.