German Elections & Politics

[SNJ1985]

INSA Saxony Landtagswahl poll (5/10):

CDU: 37,5%
AfD: 21,5%
Linke: 16%
SPD: 13%
Grünen: 6%
FDP: 2%
NPD: 1,5%
Others: 2,5%

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Larger version available on request.

[International Brotherhood of Bernard]

Larger version available on request.

Yes please! Looks like a fantastic map!

[Omega21]

German Green Politician has stated:

"Germans need to learn Arabic"

http://www.krone.at/welt/gruen-politiker-deutsche-sollen-arabisch-lernen-provokanter-rat-story-534509

Which will hopefully run their approval rating a bit down.

[PresidentSamTilden]

So is AfD likely to continue to grow nationally? Do they have a realistic ceiling?

Also...Why have they adopted a Climate denial platform? I would have thought something like that would get laughed out of parliament in a European country. Very unfortunate to see them doing well, especially in a country that's been successful with emissions cuts. Do people blame those for the slow economy or something?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

So is AfD likely to continue to grow nationally? Do they have a realistic ceiling?

Also...Why have they adopted a Climate denial platform? I would have thought something like that would get laughed out of parliament in a European country. Very unfortunate to see them doing well, especially in a country that's been successful with emissions cuts. Do people blame those for the slow economy or something?

because their activists have drafted their platform, and populist-right-activists normally take their queues from America? (also global warming is one of those things that really piss off certain rightists - international cooperation, the potential you might be hindering your own economic advancement for the sake of every other country that is "winning" - like in a lot of countries nowadays, the hard-right in Germany is very declinist; believing that Germany is being taken advantage of because its naiveness and leaders caving to international (((globalists))) is very common).

As for their ceiling, well, a lot of similar parties in Western Europe have effectively become pensioner's interests parties (although like most parties, party activists are normally blissfully ignorant of their actual voters). I think their is a natural ceiling in Germany particular amongst old people, but that will probably diminish over time, especially if the AfD is professionalised like the Greens and Linke.

[DavidB.]

In addition to what Crabcake says, people who care enough about climate change to let it influence their vote would almost never even think of voting for a party like AfD in the first place. It is not uncommon for European far-right parties to think climate change isn't real. What's more, the far-right in Germany (and Austria) is full of conspiracy loons who think climate change doesn't exist and is simply a way for the NWO/Illuminati/Rothschilds to stay powerful.

[DC Al Fine]

In addition to what Crabcake says, people who care enough about climate change to let it influence their vote would almost never even think of voting for a party like AfD in the first place. It is not uncommon for European far-right parties to think climate change isn't real. What's more, the far-right in Germany (and Austria) is full of conspiracy loons who think climate change doesn't exist and is simply a way for the NWO/Illuminati/Rothschilds to stay powerful.

Good point.

It applies to virtually every puzzlement about why a party would take such an 'objectively bad' position. I'll have to use that to explain why the Liberals and NDP are so rigidly pro-abortion, or why the LibDems are so stridently pro-Europe.

[Diouf]

On DPP and BNP, but the same points can be applied with the AfD.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://berghahnbooks.com/blog/bernhard-forchtner-nationalism-environmental-issues

[DavidB.]

On DPP and BNP, but the same points can be applied with the AfD.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://berghahnbooks.com/blog/bernhard-forchtner-nationalism-environmental-issues

A very interesting subject indeed. Some RRWPs do focus on the connection between "the people" and "the land" (which is sometimes reflected in their preferred policies regarding deforestation, animals, industry), but at the same time they rarely care for more global environmental issues such as climate change. A distinction between national "real" environmental issues and international supposedly unimportant or fake environmental issues is drawn, if any attention is paid to the environment at all. This is even the case in the one Western European country that is perhaps most threatened by climate change, the Netherlands: the PVV consider environmental issues "leftist hobbies."

[PresidentSamTilden]

Yeah, that is pretty interesting. I guess at heart most people are environmentalists somewhat, nobody really wants to see their community park replaced with a big, polluting coal power plant. Maybe that appealing to that attitude can convince more people? Either way, hopefully these groups don't end up running any governments.

[DavidB.]

Yeah, that is pretty interesting. I guess at heart most people are environmentalists somewhat, nobody really wants to see their community park replaced with a big, polluting coal power plant. Maybe that appealing to that attitude can convince more people? Either way, hopefully these groups don't end up running any governments.

These groups? Radical right-wing parties are currently in government in Switzerland, Norway and Finland, they are necessary to sustain the current Danish government (and all Danish governments between 2001 and 2011), they were necessary to sustain the previous Dutch government, and they were in government in the Netherlands, Italy and Austria too.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The distinction is between conservationism and environmentalism. Many right-wingers adulate rural life - while urban life is a hotbed for sin and coruption, the rural areas are where the "true" country/people lie. For a nationalist, the flora and fauna are worth conserving because it is the country and the country is the most important thing of all.

Yeah, that is pretty interesting. I guess at heart most people are environmentalists somewhat, nobody really wants to see their community park replaced with a big, polluting coal power plant. Maybe that appealing to that attitude can convince more people? Either way, hopefully these groups don't end up running any governments.

tbh, the only thing really keeping the coal plants alive at the moment in Deutschland is the SPD and the unions, who are pushing for a delayed phaseout; unlike the CDU which wants to phase-out by about 2025. Howver, as SPD's only hope of getting the Chancellorship depends on the Greens, they will have to agree to a phase-out anyway.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

In addition to what Crabcake says, people who care enough about climate change to let it influence their vote would almost never even think of voting for a party like AfD in the first place. It is not uncommon for European far-right parties to think climate change isn't real. What's more, the far-right in Germany (and Austria) is full of conspiracy loons who think climate change doesn't exist and is simply a way for the NWO/Illuminati/Rothschilds to stay powerful.

Good point.

It applies to virtually every puzzlement about why a party would take such an 'objectively bad' position. I'll have to use that to explain why the Liberals and NDP are so rigidly pro-abortion, or why the LibDems are so stridently pro-Europe.

I mean, I care enough about abortion to let it influence my vote, and I'd probably want to vote for the NDP if I were Canadian.

[PresidentSamTilden]

These groups? Radical right-wing parties are currently in government in Switzerland, Norway and Finland, they are necessary to sustain the current Danish government (and all Danish governments between 2001 and 2011), they were necessary to sustain the previous Dutch government, and they were in government in the Netherlands, Italy and Austria too.

Jeez, that's kinda frightening. Sort of strange to have these groups in power while their countries are part of the evil globalist European union, right?

[Beezer]

So is AfD likely to continue to grow nationally? Do they have a realistic ceiling?

Also...Why have they adopted a Climate denial platform? I would have thought something like that would get laughed out of parliament in a European country. Very unfortunate to see them doing well, especially in a country that's been successful with emissions cuts. Do people blame those for the slow economy or something?

I suppose it also has to do with the parties certain policies are associated with and partisans adjusting their policy preferences accordingly. Of course the party that is most associated with climate change and actions to curtail it are the Greens. There is no worse party for a right-wing populist than the Greens so taking a sceptical position on that issue is almost to be expected.

[DC Al Fine]

In addition to what Crabcake says, people who care enough about climate change to let it influence their vote would almost never even think of voting for a party like AfD in the first place. It is not uncommon for European far-right parties to think climate change isn't real. What's more, the far-right in Germany (and Austria) is full of conspiracy loons who think climate change doesn't exist and is simply a way for the NWO/Illuminati/Rothschilds to stay powerful.

Good point.

It applies to virtually every puzzlement about why a party would take such an 'objectively bad' position. I'll have to use that to explain why the Liberals and NDP are so rigidly pro-abortion, or why the LibDems are so stridently pro-Europe.

I mean, I care enough about abortion to let it influence my vote, and I'd probably want to vote for the NDP if I were Canadian.

*Insert disclaimer about 'in any meaningful numbers' here.

[Middle-aged Europe]

CDU and SPD nominate foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier (SPD) as presidential candidate to succeed Joachim Gauck next February.

Overall a success for the SPD, because Steinmeier was SPD chairman Sigmar Gabriel's favorite choice, while the CDU had resisted that option for a couple of weeks. After they apparently couldn't find a suitable alternative, they surrended to Steinmeier now.

This also means the SPD will have to pick a new foreign minister to serve for half a year before the next Bundestag election.

Steinmeier himself is known as not a big fan of Donald Trump. During the U.S. election campaign he called Trump a "hate preacher" and he notably refused to congratulate Trump on his election. In Germany, Steinmeier often comes out on top in opinion polls as the most popular politician we have right now (72% approval rating in early November).

[palandio]

Steinmeier is an interesting case of "soft popularity". While having high approval ratings all the time, he led the SPD into its worst electoral defeat since WW2 in 2009 (only 23%, down from 34.2% in 2005, in absolute numbers 9.99 millions, down from 16.19 millions). Of course one might argue that coming out from a Grand coalition didn't certainly help and that the SPD had been polling below its 2005 result for quite a time, but even then 23% was really bad.

[Yeahsayyeah]

He's minister of foreign affairs. That's the reason for his approval ratings. Westerwelle was the only one to screw up in this regard. If not for that he's just "bland technocrat third-way SPD", which would not induce such approval ratings.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Martin Schulz, incumbent President of the European Parliament, is mentioned as possible new foreign minister (and a couple of weeks ago he was also mentioned as a possible chancellor-candidate for the SPD).

[Hnv1]

Martin Schulz, incumbent President of the European Parliament, is mentioned as possible new foreign minister (and a couple of weeks ago he was also mentioned as a possible chancellor-candidate for the SPD).

Met him when he was in Israel seemed like a sharp bloke, not sure if chancellor material

[Silent Hunter]

Is there a term for a CDU/SPD/Green coalition? Because you might end up getting that come next year.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Is there a term for a CDU/SPD/Green coalition? Because you might end up getting that come next year.

That's a Kenya coalition... there's one right now in Saxony-Anhalt.

[Silent Hunter]

Got it. Thanks.