"America has the richest poor in the world!"

[All Along The Watchtower]

I've heard this talking point a lot, usually by right-wingers who think the poor have it too good in America.

If this is true, though-wouldn't that be a good thing? I mean, it's not like some of us want the poor to suffe...

Oh wait.

[Dave from Michigan]

The attacking the poor is the main reason I'm a Democrat now, although probably a conservative one especially on a lot of other issues.

To too many people being poor is there own doing.

There are so many myths about welfare, who gets it and how much.

the worst saying I think is "if you don't like your job quit and find another".

or calling poor people who receive welfare or food stamps, lazy parasites or a "drain on society".

Also to a lot of conervatives the welfare state and free handouts are the biggest problems facing the U.S.

google search for "people who don't pay income taxes shouldn't be allwed to vote" if you want to read some horrible stuff. Way to many people think this is a good idea.

[memphis]

This is a generational problem for the GOP. Nobody under 35 gets their panties wadded over "welfare." We have more pressing concerns.

[opebo]

What utter, meaningless rot.  American poor are much worse off than poor in dozens of other countries, and anyway it is poverty in context and relatively speaking that matters..

[The Free North]

I've heard this talking point a lot, usually by right-wingers who think the poor have it too good in America.

If this is true, though-wouldn't that be a good thing? I mean, it's not like some of us want the poor to suffe...

Oh wait.

I have on idea where you heard any of this. But I tend to agree with the title.


America's 99% is the rest of the worlds 1%

[tik 🪀✨]

http://www.globalissues.org/article/4/poverty-around-the-world says:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

We could surmise this to be for a number of rather obvious reasons. The take-away though is that the poor in wealthier countries are unhappier and find it harder to cope with poverty than the poors in less developed economies. If I live in America and struggle to make ends meet while enjoying seemingly little luxury, well, what the hell is going on? I live in the richest country in the world! I work my ass off! Why am I forced to struggle so hard while my neighbor prospers and seems so content? Sure, if I lived in frigging Papua New Guinea and was dirt poor, well, so is pretty much everyone else. And I'm relatively unaware of what a first world lifestyle is actually like anyway so I probably can't relate or care much. At least I'm alive.

The wealth of the poor in America is not the point whatsoever. Anyone who argues otherwise clearly has no understanding of what being poor is actually like and has no interest in empathizing. Poverty is a trap - a cyclical problem that trains its victims to never escape its grasp. The relative wealth of the poor is transferred to the wealthy by a number of sly means regularly - there is never enough to save anything substantial for any lengthy period. They are taught to consume. You need to get every little comfort you can get while that money is available. That irresponsibility keeps the cogs of the American consumer economy rotating, transferring money from the desperate and disillusioned to the owners. You cannot get ahead when you are trained to stay behind.

So, that's the real problem - inequality. From a study cited in the link earlier:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What bothers me about conservatives is that they seem to think that liberals want an "equal society." Some inequality is necessary to keep the cogs turning. The problem right now is that that inequality is increasing exceptionally rapidly. It's provably bad for a society in so many ways! Do I want to earn as much as my bosses? No, I don't. I don't think most people would expect everyone to earn equally as much. After all, money is a motivator and more money should be given when warranted. What most of us do think is that the lower end should earn much more and the higher end should earn less. You need a good enough gap to "reward" those with more power to control the economy while still giving a great deal of disposable income to those who actually keep the economic cogs lubricated.

No, it doesn't have as much to do with the poor struggling to pay for their TV dinners as it does with the poor not being able to easily start their own ventures or buy even more products and services that are developed world luxuries.

We may wring our hands at the plight of the working poor to gain sympathy with regards to their basic, harder lives, but what we really think is that if we gave these guys a better income to start with that everyone else would do better as well.

Ham-fisted metaphor time!

The purpose of your lungs is to deliver oxygen to the red blood cells and then to the rest of your body to use as fuel. Which will help your body live longer and stay stronger - if the oxygen is ultimately all concentrated and delivered to a small portion of your cells or if it is distributed more or less equally as it traverses into every tiny capillary? Indeed, a great deal of it is needed to power the brain - but what good is a brain with a starved body? In fact, you'd have a serious illness in such a case. Sure, you don't need the entire body to merely continue existing (or thriving in intellect or spirit, I admit), but you will be severely handicapped regardless.

I don't fancy continuing to drone on about this. Suffice it to say that the "richest poor" in America are still poor by American standards - and that's the only one that means anything in that context. Place an American poor person in Africa and they'd have enough money to be okay. But they don't live in Africa so it's a ridiculous, useless comparison.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Sounds like an excuse to not do anything to help people who can't even afford a home.

[pbrower2a]

What utter, meaningless rot.  American poor are much worse off than poor in dozens of other countries, and anyway it is poverty in context and relatively speaking that matters..

Indeed. We in America can do far more for the poor in America than we can do for the poor in India -- and of course more than people in India can do on behalf of their own poor. But our economic elite have become brutally adept in doing nasty stuff to everyone else, and their political stooges tell us that it is all for the best.

We see the consequences of crony capitalism and the development of a rapacious  nomenklatura in Big Business that enriches a few yet denies opportunity to so many. The glass ceilings of the recent past have become lower, more rigid, and harder.

If Americans are poor yet have such 'luxuries' as TV sets and VCRs, then many of those are from 'good' times before the 2008 meltdown.  But the 19" CRT set and the VCR, let alone the VCR tapes of recorded movies aren't worth much anymore. If we had the same sorts of Pangloss-like figures in the media in the 1930s they would be deriding former members of the middle class for still having silverware (of real silver) and bone china, and maybe objects of Art Deco design that they had in the 1920s. Never mind that one couldn't then get much by selling the silverware, bone china, or Art Deco objects.

Poor people in America know or at least think that they know how elites live -- and the many of the elites make clear that they have no charity toward any but themselves. So what will it take for our economic elites to get a clue?

Capitalism survived what Karl Marx predicted as its imminent demise by making a market out of the proletariat. Capitalism, wherever it exists, survives to the extent that it offers something to people not themselves capitalists.  Our tycoons, executives, and big landowners seem to have forgotten that fact.

      

[Brittain33]

Does anyone else remember a right-wing meme some years ago where "studies" found that the per capita GDP of Sweden was equivalent to that of Mississippi, or something? That well-off countries in Europe were equivalent to our poorest states?

[Torie]

Whatever the numbers, the poor in the US are a bit short of nirvana if they can't access health care, and their kids are consigned to crap schools, and they live in neighborhoods that are unsafe. So the numbers don't have much meaning to me. Oh, and then there is the poor public transportation system as compared to Europe and Japan. So in some areas, the cost of living of the poor is higher in the US. In most places, you really can't exist without a car or two, and even clunkers cost a considerable sum to operate.

Based on my own anecdotal experience, it sucks to be poor in America.

[pbrower2a]

Does anyone else remember a right-wing meme some years ago where "studies" found that the per capita GDP of Sweden was equivalent to that of Mississippi, or something? That well-off countries in Europe were equivalent to our poorest states?

But the poorest people in America are far worse off than the poorest in Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium... Economic inequality in the USA is severe. 

[opebo]

Capitalism survived what Karl Marx predicted as its imminent demise by making a market out of the proletariat. Capitalism, wherever it exists, survives to the extent that it offers something to people not themselves capitalists.  Our tycoons, executives, and big landowners seem to have forgotten that fact. 

Wouldn't this tie into the 'assurational' vs. penal model of social control?  Of course the owning class prefer penal control of its slaves, but perhaps the other works better.

[Beet]

I dont see why this line of argument isn't considered anti-Americanism. "Why those ungrateful Americans, if only they were as poor as the third world poor things would be fair!" Besides, it's not even true. The poor in the US have far worse health outcomes than the poor in many other countries.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

It's a valid point that many of those below the poverty line in America have much more in cash or material goods than the poor in most countries.  An argument like "Why spend money on poor people in other countries, when we have plenty of poor people here at home" misses this difference of poverty around the world both in terms of quality and quantity.  There's even a wide variety of the experience of poor people at the same income level within the US.  What many of the poor in the U.S. do not have is opportunities, or the ability or knowledge needed to take advantage of opportunities for whatever reason.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

When I see the homeless man by the freeway on-ramp or a mother paying for formula with WIC coupons, I think, "man, these Americans have it on easy street. How rich these poor are!"

[DC Al Fine]

When I see the homeless man by the freeway on-ramp or a mother paying for formula with WIC coupons, I think, "man, these Americans have it on easy street. How rich these poor are!"

Well homelessness is a whole other can of worms IMO. A lot of that has to do with drug abuse, mental health etc.

Now as for the mom, yeah she definitely isn't as well off as her German or Swedish counterpart, but when compared to the whole world's poor she's doing ok. Her kids won't starve, and they have a decent chance of becoming obese

The line in the title is dumb and incorrect, but it contains a kernel of truth. After all, there are lots of people who want to become American poors.

[pbrower2a]

When I see the homeless man by the freeway on-ramp or a mother paying for formula with WIC coupons, I think, "man, these Americans have it on easy street. How rich these poor are!"

Well homelessness is a whole other can of worms IMO. A lot of that has to do with drug abuse, mental health etc.

Now as for the mom, yeah she definitely isn't as well off as her German or Swedish counterpart, but when compared to the whole world's poor she's doing ok. Her kids won't starve, and they have a decent chance of becoming obese

The line in the title is dumb and incorrect, but it contains a kernel of truth. After all, there are lots of people who want to become American poors.

We should be comparing ourselves to countries like Germany and Sweden -- not Egypt, India, Colombia, or Vietnam.

Americans not already poor do not want to become poor.

[Franzl]

What developed country is it worse to be poor in?

[Torie]

What developed country is it worse to be poor in?

Singapore or Hong Kong?

[opebo]

What developed country is it worse to be poor in?

Singapore or Hong Kong?

Unlikely.  There's almost no crime there, which is a big plus for the poor, who are its only victims.

[Link]

When I see the homeless man by the freeway on-ramp or a mother paying for formula with WIC coupons, I think, "man, these Americans have it on easy street. How rich these poor are!"

Well homelessness is a whole other can of worms IMO. A lot of that has to do with drug abuse, mental health etc.

Very interesting how you put that.  I've never heard anyone say it that way.  I think people that work in that area would say a lot of the homeless problem has to do with mental health issues.  And obviously drug addiction is a mental health issue in it's own right and it is also often secondary to an underlying unaddressed mental health issue with people self medicating.  Just breaking out "drug abuse," putting it top of the list and not acknowledging it is actually drug addiction really does a disservice to people who are suffering because of the chronic lack of adequate healthcare in America.  I guess that approach also helps people feel okay with blaming the sick.

Her kids won't starve, and they have a decent chance of becoming obese

Meaning if you are not "starving" everything is okay.  This may come as a shock to someone that hasn't traveled but there are plenty of kids living in poverty in third world countries that are not "starving."

The line in the title is dumb and incorrect, but it contains a kernel of truth. After all, there are lots of people who want to become American poors.

Well there are also lots of people who want to purchase a lottery ticket so they can be a multi millionaires.  I wouldn't say those people are doing okay.  Just because the planet has been sold a bunch of propaganda doesn't mean it's true.  And anyway some day you should get a passport and come to the US and walk the mean streets for yourself.  There are plenty of people that come and go from this country every year.  There are plenty of students that show up and once they see what the deal is they have no desire to stay.

The game plan of the far right is to sell everyone the American dream.  Well unlike the American sheeple there are a lot of foreigners that see through this scam and realize they would be better off at home.  People like Putin, the leadership in China, Iran, etc are not nice people.  But part of the beef they have with the United States is legitimate.  There are plenty of people in plenty of countries that on paper do not make as many dollars a year as the US but live much happier and fulfilled lives with dignity.

[Torie]

What developed country is it worse to be poor in?

Singapore or Hong Kong?

Unlikely.  There's almost no crime there, which is a big plus for the poor, who are its only victims.

Indeed. Hong Kong I am told is the safest city in the world, and during the week I was there, I saw neither any crime nor any cops. None, zip, nada. In that sense, it seemed like the Garden of Eden. It was also interesting, that all the sidewalks have these little metal balls in them for the blind to follow, along with lights with music so they can "hear" when the light is green or red. Didn't see any blind people either however. Maybe that is where the master race lives, and Hitler just got it wrong as to its identity.

[All Along The Watchtower]

It's a valid point that many of those below the poverty line in America have much more in cash or material goods than the poor in most countries.  An argument like "Why spend money on poor people in other countries, when we have plenty of poor people here at home" misses this difference of poverty around the world both in terms of quality and quantity.  There's even a wide variety of the experience of poor people at the same income level within the US.  What many of the poor in the U.S. do not have is opportunities, or the ability or knowledge needed to take advantage of opportunities for whatever reason.

80% of American households have a per capita financial (non-home) wealth of roughly $27,000..less than 1/800 the per capita financial wealth of the top 1% of households. 3 in 4 Americans have no personal financial "safety net."

The vast majority of Americans, therefore, are quite vulnerable to the effects of economic downturns, a job loss, a medical emergency, student loan repayments...

[DC Al Fine]

When I see the homeless man by the freeway on-ramp or a mother paying for formula with WIC coupons, I think, "man, these Americans have it on easy street. How rich these poor are!"

Well homelessness is a whole other can of worms IMO. A lot of that has to do with drug abuse, mental health etc.

Very interesting how you put that.  I've never heard anyone say it that way.  I think people that work in that area would say a lot of the homeless problem has to do with mental health issues.  And obviously drug addiction is a mental health issue in it's own right and it is also often secondary to an underlying unaddressed mental health issue with people self medicating.  Just breaking out "drug abuse," putting it top of the list and not acknowledging it is actually drug addiction really does a disservice to people who are suffering because of the chronic lack of adequate healthcare in America.  I guess that approach also helps people feel okay with blaming the sick.

Her kids won't starve, and they have a decent chance of becoming obese

Meaning if you are not "starving" everything is okay.  This may come as a shock to someone that hasn't traveled but there are plenty of kids living in poverty in third world countries that are not "starving."

The line in the title is dumb and incorrect, but it contains a kernel of truth. After all, there are lots of people who want to become American poors.

Well there are also lots of people who want to purchase a lottery ticket so they can be a multi millionaires.  I wouldn't say those people are doing okay.  Just because the planet has been sold a bunch of propaganda doesn't mean it's true.  And anyway some day you should get a passport and come to the US and walk the mean streets for yourself.  There are plenty of people that come and go from this country every year.  There are plenty of students that show up and once they see what the deal is they have no desire to stay.

The game plan of the far right is to sell everyone the American dream.  Well unlike the American sheeple there are a lot of foreigners that see through this scam and realize they would be better off at home.  People like Putin, the leadership in China, Iran, etc are not nice people.  But part of the beef they have with the United States is legitimate.  There are plenty of people in plenty of countries that on paper do not make as many dollars a year as the US but live much happier and fulfilled lives with dignity.

Link, you're reading waaaayyyy too much into my comments. See where I bolded.

[Link]

Link, you're reading waaaayyyy too much into my comments. See where I bolded.

Perhaps.  That's always a possibility.  But you did make a rather lengthy statement that many of the poor in America are not "starving."  I countered that many children living in poverty in third world countries are not "starving" either.  So using the metric of "starving" is invalid.

I am sorry if I misunderstood and misrepresented your statements.  It's just after the rule of Reagan and his dog whistle talk of welfare queens driving Cadillac I'm always suspicious of people saying stuff ain't that bad for poor Americans.

Just about all my foreign born friends I speak to say the American dream is not all it's cracked up to be.  And a fair number of them leave or never come over to put down permanent roots.

I personally would much rather live in a small sparsely furnished house in the Caribbean somewhere with no DVD player, microwave, coffee maker, flat panel TV, etc and work a modest job and relax on a beach on my weekends off than work 60 hours a week at two low paying service jobs in the US and deal with the police harassment and patronizing rich people.