Opinion of modern elite liberals in America
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  Opinion of modern elite liberals in America
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Author Topic: Opinion of modern elite liberals in America  (Read 1070 times)
All Along The Watchtower
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« on: October 12, 2013, 03:37:32 AM »

Understanding "modern elite liberals " as the liberals who have generally replaced traditional left-liberal emphasis on combating poverty and unemployment, creating broad-based economic growth, helping workers receive higher wages and benefits through labor unions, providing access to health care, education, and social assistance,  and working towards civil rights for minorities....

...replaced with a focus on environmental protection, equality of opportunity in the workplace for women, gays, and minorities, a "creative class" outlook and social base, a desire for increased protection of civil liberties, an idealistic internationalist foreign policy, a bias in attitude in favor of cities and urbanization,  an appreciation of "organic food", a heavily secular ethics, a pluralistic/multicultural understanding of where America is headed, great respect for "tolerance" and difference of opinion,  and of course, support for liberalized sexual and gender attitudes.

Have at it. Tongue








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opebo
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 07:49:39 AM »

Prefer traditional left.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 07:50:10 AM »

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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2013, 08:07:17 AM »

Couldn't give a crap about the working class and seem intent on destroying what little support systems they have left. Witness their attitudes towards divorce, land use policies etc.
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TNF
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 08:40:46 AM »

Scabs, the lot of 'em.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 08:43:02 AM »

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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2013, 08:57:05 AM »

Can't we have both?

But yeah, gun to my head I'd prefer the traditional left.
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Supersonic
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2013, 09:16:52 AM »

Prefer the modern liberal elite to the 'Old Left'.
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opebo
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2013, 10:16:08 AM »

Witness their attitudes towards divorce

What?
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Torie
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 10:18:35 AM »

It depends on the issue, and how you weight issues, doesn't it?
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Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2013, 10:30:47 AM »

Should've just added their concerns to the list rather than replace them. 
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Arturo Belano
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2013, 10:31:58 AM »

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Goldwater
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2013, 11:18:13 AM »

Prefer the modern liberal elite to the 'Old Left'.

This, although I'm not a fan of either ideology.
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FEMA Camp Administrator
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2013, 12:23:52 PM »

The second is worse than the first.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2013, 12:28:20 PM »

What a ridiculously-worded, (mis)leading question.  I don't even know where to begin.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2013, 12:34:57 PM »

I don't like the "traditional left" but I heavily dislike the "new" left, so If I had to choose, I would go with the traditional left.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2013, 02:02:54 PM »

What a ridiculously-worded, (mis)leading question.  I don't even know where to begin.

Then please, begin.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2013, 03:07:54 PM »


I'll answer with this:
Should've just added their concerns to the list rather than replace them.  
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Mechaman
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2013, 03:17:22 PM »
« Edited: October 12, 2013, 03:19:31 PM by Communists For McCain »

As for the topic, I'm going to answer HP since I believe that elitism is inherently illiberal and should have no place in any left wing party.

Most of the ideas that the OP mistakenly credits the paternalistic neoliberal owner class with are Freedom Ideas though.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2013, 03:59:47 PM »
« Edited: October 12, 2013, 04:04:36 PM by traininthedistance »

What a ridiculously-worded, (mis)leading question.  I don't even know where to begin.

Then please, begin.

I would if I knew where. Tongue

But, seriously, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by putting "elite" in there as if to say that all modern liberals are "elites" (hint: false, and if that's not what you mean then you have a false dichotomy right off the bat), or that modern liberals don't care about the top things (again, very false), or that only "elites" care about the bottom half (still false- whether you're looking at old liberals or modern non-elites), or really the silly level of pigeonholing going on here in general (different people care about different things, even within the umbrella of "liberals" of course).

As for the topic, I'm going to answer HP since I believe that elitism is inherently illiberal and should have no place in any left wing party.

Most of the ideas that the OP mistakenly credits the paternalistic neoliberal owner class with are Freedom Ideas though.

Obviously we have pretty different cultural backgrounds but I would certainly affirm that your second sentence is spot-on.  I will quibble with the first sentence insofar as I believe rather strongly that anti-intellectualism is a greater danger, both historically and today, than elitism. While the two are certainly not antonyms per se I find that a lot of particularly dangerous and potent anti-intellectual movements have hidden behind a mask of "populist" anti-elitism, and thus pretty badly tarnished its brand.  Obviously this is not a universal.
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2013, 04:35:57 PM »

Mixed feelings. They're generally tolerable as politicians, but some of their ideas such as being pro-abortion or entitlement "reform" are horrible along with their saccharine multikulti sweetness and their underlying worldview is highly questionable to say the least.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2013, 02:37:30 PM »

What a ridiculously-worded, (mis)leading question.  I don't even know where to begin.

Then please, begin.

I would if I knew where. Tongue

But, seriously, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by putting "elite" in there as if to say that all modern liberals are "elites" (hint: false, and if that's not what you mean then you have a false dichotomy right off the bat), or that modern liberals don't care about the top things (again, very false), or that only "elites" care about the bottom half (still false- whether you're looking at old liberals or modern non-elites), or really the silly level of pigeonholing going on here in general (different people care about different things, even within the umbrella of "liberals" of course).

As for the topic, I'm going to answer HP since I believe that elitism is inherently illiberal and should have no place in any left wing party.

Most of the ideas that the OP mistakenly credits the paternalistic neoliberal owner class with are Freedom Ideas though.

Obviously we have pretty different cultural backgrounds but I would certainly affirm that your second sentence is spot-on.  I will quibble with the first sentence insofar as I believe rather strongly that anti-intellectualism is a greater danger, both historically and today, than elitism. While the two are certainly not antonyms per se I find that a lot of particularly dangerous and potent anti-intellectual movements have hidden behind a mask of "populist" anti-elitism, and thus pretty badly tarnished its brand.  Obviously this is not a universal.

Not all modern liberals are "elite", true. But, a good deal of them, those who drive the overall liberal movement especially, are more economically affluent and especially better-educated (which is often correlated with affluence) than the general population.

You do make some good points though, and I agree with you about the history of  "populist" movements using "anti-elitism" to enact their reactionary agendas. And yeah, I know I'm making generalizations here, perhaps too much, but surely you can see some merit to what I'm saying? Tongue
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muon2
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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2013, 03:28:45 PM »

If you are interested in reading a left-leaning elitist decrying the transition 20 years ago to the situation of the OP I'd recommend "In Defense of Elitism" by William A Henry III. Here's a link to a contemporaneous review of the book.
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rejectamenta
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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2013, 04:26:28 PM »

Scoundrels and enemies.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2013, 04:28:26 PM »

I hate all of the libreals Wink
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