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Adam Griffin
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« on: October 14, 2013, 01:55:31 AM »
« edited: October 14, 2013, 02:16:21 AM by IDS Legislator Griffin »

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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 02:08:23 AM »

Bumping since Hagrid can't stand the truth.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 02:19:03 AM »

Let's talk about how awful the abortion policies of the Federalist Party are, since apparently an advertisement has to be interactive!
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 02:20:35 AM »


You bumped after 13 minutes?  Lol... dude, I think you need to learn how a forum works.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 02:22:15 AM »


You bumped after 13 minutes?  Lol... dude, I think you need to learn how a forum works.

Dude, I think you missed what unfolded during that 13 minutes.
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Sbane
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 02:22:46 AM »
« Edited: October 14, 2013, 02:25:54 AM by Senator Sbane »

Let's talk about how awful the abortion policies of the Federalist Party are, since apparently an advertisement has to be interactive!

You just put up a grotesque ad and you don't want a response? I don't think the abortion bill was a good idea, and neither do a lot of other Federalists, and other voters who support them (we get about half the vote, if you haven't noticed).
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 02:24:10 AM »


You bumped after 13 minutes?  Lol... dude, I think you need to learn how a forum works.

Dude, I think you missed what unfolded during that 13 minutes.

No, I understand exactly what happened.  Seriously... you're 25 and you did what you did?  Grow up.  That kind of stuff is what kindergartners do, not adults.  If you're going to do what you did, at least do it for the substance reasons, not for the reasons you did it.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 02:32:22 AM »


You bumped after 13 minutes?  Lol... dude, I think you need to learn how a forum works.

Dude, I think you missed what unfolded during that 13 minutes.

No, I understand exactly what happened.  Seriously... you're 25 and you did what you did?  Grow up.  That kind of stuff is what kindergartners do, not adults.  If you're going to do what you did, at least do it for the substance reasons, not for the reasons you did it.

So I suppose I should write a five-paragraph essay about it and expect it to garner the same attention? Right. I'm not going to listen to the 23-year old guy who  literally  spends hours each day arguing and interrogating a developmentally challenged man over his life choices in order to make himself feel better about his autonomy. We get it, Inks: you're so mature.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 02:35:10 AM »


You bumped after 13 minutes?  Lol... dude, I think you need to learn how a forum works.

Dude, I think you missed what unfolded during that 13 minutes.

No, I understand exactly what happened.  Seriously... you're 25 and you did what you did?  Grow up.  That kind of stuff is what kindergartners do, not adults.  If you're going to do what you did, at least do it for the substance reasons, not for the reasons you did it.

So I suppose I should write a five-paragraph essay about it and expect it to garner the same attention? Right. I'm not going to listen to the guy who spends literally hours each day arguing and interrogating a developmentally challenged man over their life choices in order to make himself feel better about his autonomy. We get it, Inks: you're so mature.

Either you've missed my point or you're intentionally ignoring my point.  I have NEVER done what you did, and I will NEVER do it.  You abused the system because of a fight in Atlasia.  Abuses of the system are stupid in general, but they're doubly stupid when done to try to further a fight in a game.
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Frodo
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 02:37:00 AM »

Regardless of your opinion on this measure, does anyone really want the female infanticide mores of India and China to enter this country?  Shouldn't we be doing more than merely condemning it?  
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President Tyrion
TyrionTheImperialist
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2013, 02:41:19 AM »

Either you've missed my point or you're intentionally ignoring my point.  I have NEVER done what you did, and I will NEVER do it.  You abused the system because of a fight in Atlasia.  Abuses of the system are stupid in general, but they're doubly stupid when done to try to further a fight in a game.

I'm sure everyone could have handled this better. I have tons of respect for everyone here, so let's calm it down, and not hurl insults. We all know you're both doing it. Here's the matter at hand. You bring up "abuses of the system." Let's focus on the greatest abuse of the system here, and that's ZuWo not signing the bill into law in order to prevent the people from exercising their democratic right to a referendum. That's the real abuse of the system, and that's the issue here.

I love you guys, and this bickering needs to stop, and this REAL abuse needs to be at the forefront of all discussions on the topic moving forward.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2013, 02:42:01 AM »

Either you've missed my point or you're intentionally ignoring my point.  I have NEVER done what you did, and I will NEVER do it.  You abused the system because of a fight in Atlasia.  Abuses of the system are stupid in general, but they're doubly stupid when done to try to further a fight in a game.

Is your point that I'm immature and "abused the system" because I locked the topic, then bumped it? Until Hagrid had one of his little tantrums and overtly attacked me in a personal fashion, I had no motivation to unlock or otherwise bump this topic. That's not the point, though - the issue of the legislation that was passed in the Mideast is the topic. You were one of the three who voted in favor of the legislation. Please extrapolate, or continue to play victims and attack the messenger, I suppose.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2013, 02:42:18 AM »

I wouldn't consider banning abortions after the first trimester to be "radical", assuming that is the bill you are referring to.
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Sbane
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2013, 02:45:04 AM »

Regardless of your opinion on this measure, does anyone really want the female infanticide mores of India and China to enter this country?  Shouldn't we be doing more than merely condemning it? 

The issue with that line of reasoning is that the issue does not exist within Atlasia (America), even within immigrant populations. If you believe it is the case, then prove it. It is an issue that is relegated to other countries, so why do we need to pass a law for it here? I could support a law (but not this particular one because it wouldn't even be effective) targeting this problem if I was a legislator in India or China. But this is Atlasia, and we should pass laws that are relevant here.
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President Tyrion
TyrionTheImperialist
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 02:48:16 AM »

Regardless of your opinion on this measure, does anyone really want the female infanticide mores of India and China to enter this country?  Shouldn't we be doing more than merely condemning it?  

The issue with that line of reasoning is that the issue does not exist within Atlasia (America), even within immigrant populations. If you believe it is the case, then prove it. It is an issue that is relegated to other countries, so why do we need to pass a law for it here? I could support a law (but not this particular one because it wouldn't even be effective) targeting this problem if I was a legislator in India or China. But this is Atlasia, and we should pass laws that are relevant here.

And, to add on to sbane's point, it's incredibly difficult to prove in any context.

We can dance around the issue all we want, but there's no doubt that the two different manners of thinking are such:

1) A woman may have control over her body unless there is an extremely good reason otherwise; and

2) A woman's body may be controlled by the state unless there is an extremely good reason for freedom.

Women don't need to prove their freedom. It is a right. This law in the Mideast, however, balances heavily to the latter situation.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2013, 02:50:50 AM »

Either you've missed my point or you're intentionally ignoring my point.  I have NEVER done what you did, and I will NEVER do it.  You abused the system because of a fight in Atlasia.  Abuses of the system are stupid in general, but they're doubly stupid when done to try to further a fight in a game.

Is your point that I'm immature and "abused the system" because I locked the topic, then bumped it? Until Hagrid had one of his little tantrums and overtly attacked me in a personal fashion, I had no motivation to unlock or otherwise bump this topic. That's not the point, though - the issue of the legislation that was passed in the Mideast is the topic. You were one of the three who voted in favor of the legislation. Please extrapolate, or continue to play victims and attack the messenger, I suppose.

No... I'm not talking about you locking the thread.  I think you know quite well what I'm talking about, but for your sake, I'll send it to you via PM.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2013, 02:54:38 AM »

Either you've missed my point or you're intentionally ignoring my point.  I have NEVER done what you did, and I will NEVER do it.  You abused the system because of a fight in Atlasia.  Abuses of the system are stupid in general, but they're doubly stupid when done to try to further a fight in a game.

I'm sure everyone could have handled this better. I have tons of respect for everyone here, so let's calm it down, and not hurl insults. We all know you're both doing it. Here's the matter at hand. You bring up "abuses of the system." Let's focus on the greatest abuse of the system here, and that's ZuWo not signing the bill into law in order to prevent the people from exercising their democratic right to a referendum. That's the real abuse of the system, and that's the issue here.

I love you guys, and this bickering needs to stop, and this REAL abuse needs to be at the forefront of all discussions on the topic moving forward.

I'm not hurling insults.  But what Adam did pisses me off because it's one line that I don't think should be crossed, and when people repeatedly cross it (and it's been done before), it ruins the game.  He knows what I mean, and if you want more details, you can ask him.  I'm not going to post publicly what he did.
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President Tyrion
TyrionTheImperialist
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2013, 02:59:01 AM »

Either you've missed my point or you're intentionally ignoring my point.  I have NEVER done what you did, and I will NEVER do it.  You abused the system because of a fight in Atlasia.  Abuses of the system are stupid in general, but they're doubly stupid when done to try to further a fight in a game.

I'm sure everyone could have handled this better. I have tons of respect for everyone here, so let's calm it down, and not hurl insults. We all know you're both doing it. Here's the matter at hand. You bring up "abuses of the system." Let's focus on the greatest abuse of the system here, and that's ZuWo not signing the bill into law in order to prevent the people from exercising their democratic right to a referendum. That's the real abuse of the system, and that's the issue here.

I love you guys, and this bickering needs to stop, and this REAL abuse needs to be at the forefront of all discussions on the topic moving forward.

I'm not hurling insults.  But what Adam did pisses me off because it's one line that I don't think should be crossed, and when people repeatedly cross it (and it's been done before), it ruins the game.  He knows what I mean, and if you want more details, you can ask him.  I'm not going to post publicly what he did.

Er, well I'm sure people would take offense to being called a kindergartener. I guess if that's not an insult, you have a really high opinion of little kids Tongue

Not knowing what AG did, I'm just going to keep harping on what ZuWo did, and that's the real abuse of power here.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2013, 03:02:44 AM »

Either you've missed my point or you're intentionally ignoring my point.  I have NEVER done what you did, and I will NEVER do it.  You abused the system because of a fight in Atlasia.  Abuses of the system are stupid in general, but they're doubly stupid when done to try to further a fight in a game.

I'm sure everyone could have handled this better. I have tons of respect for everyone here, so let's calm it down, and not hurl insults. We all know you're both doing it. Here's the matter at hand. You bring up "abuses of the system." Let's focus on the greatest abuse of the system here, and that's ZuWo not signing the bill into law in order to prevent the people from exercising their democratic right to a referendum. That's the real abuse of the system, and that's the issue here.

I love you guys, and this bickering needs to stop, and this REAL abuse needs to be at the forefront of all discussions on the topic moving forward.

I'm not hurling insults.  But what Adam did pisses me off because it's one line that I don't think should be crossed, and when people repeatedly cross it (and it's been done before), it ruins the game.  He knows what I mean, and if you want more details, you can ask him.  I'm not going to post publicly what he did.

Er, well I'm sure people would take offense to being called a kindergartener. I guess if that's not an insult, you have a really high opinion of little kids Tongue

Not knowing what AG did, I'm just going to keep harping on what ZuWo did, and that's the real abuse of power here.

I didn't call him a kindergartner.  I said it's the kind of stuff that kindergartners do... because... well it is.
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Dereich
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2013, 03:05:57 AM »

Regardless of your opinion on this measure, does anyone really want the female infanticide mores of India and China to enter this country?  Shouldn't we be doing more than merely condemning it?  

The issue with that line of reasoning is that the issue does not exist within Atlasia (America), even within immigrant populations. If you believe it is the case, then prove it. It is an issue that is relegated to other countries, so why do we need to pass a law for it here? I could support a law (but not this particular one because it wouldn't even be effective) targeting this problem if I was a legislator in India or China. But this is Atlasia, and we should pass laws that are relevant here.

And, to add on to sbane's point, it's incredibly difficult to prove in any context.

We can dance around the issue all we want, but there's no doubt that the two different manners of thinking are such:

1) A woman may have control over her body unless there is an extremely good reason otherwise; and

2) A woman's body may be controlled by the state unless there is an extremely good reason for freedom.

Women don't need to prove their freedom. It is a right. This law in the Mideast, however, balances heavily to the latter situation.

Oh dear lord, are we really getting into this unwinnable debate again? I would be absolutely shocked if you could find ANY pro-life Atlasians whose reason for not supporting abortion is "to control a woman's body". The abortion issue always comes down to what point each individual thinks human life begins. Every point that can be chosen has its own moral and scientific problems, and each person will evaluate these differently. To believe that this is not THE issue of the abortion debate and that it really has to do with freedoms or something is ridiculous.
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President Tyrion
TyrionTheImperialist
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2013, 03:07:32 AM »

Either you've missed my point or you're intentionally ignoring my point.  I have NEVER done what you did, and I will NEVER do it.  You abused the system because of a fight in Atlasia.  Abuses of the system are stupid in general, but they're doubly stupid when done to try to further a fight in a game.

I'm sure everyone could have handled this better. I have tons of respect for everyone here, so let's calm it down, and not hurl insults. We all know you're both doing it. Here's the matter at hand. You bring up "abuses of the system." Let's focus on the greatest abuse of the system here, and that's ZuWo not signing the bill into law in order to prevent the people from exercising their democratic right to a referendum. That's the real abuse of the system, and that's the issue here.

I love you guys, and this bickering needs to stop, and this REAL abuse needs to be at the forefront of all discussions on the topic moving forward.

I'm not hurling insults.  But what Adam did pisses me off because it's one line that I don't think should be crossed, and when people repeatedly cross it (and it's been done before), it ruins the game.  He knows what I mean, and if you want more details, you can ask him.  I'm not going to post publicly what he did.

Er, well I'm sure people would take offense to being called a kindergartener. I guess if that's not an insult, you have a really high opinion of little kids Tongue

Not knowing what AG did, I'm just going to keep harping on what ZuWo did, and that's the real abuse of power here.

I didn't call him a kindergartner.  I said it's the kind of stuff that kindergartners do... because... well it is.

Well, the statement is....provocative. How about that, instead? Y'all are poking each other with sticks when you know the bears are already angry Tongue

But I realize statements like that sound remarkably holier-than-thou, so I'll get off my high horse. I just hate that the facts are being lost in all this.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2013, 03:08:49 AM »

Either you've missed my point or you're intentionally ignoring my point.  I have NEVER done what you did, and I will NEVER do it.  You abused the system because of a fight in Atlasia.  Abuses of the system are stupid in general, but they're doubly stupid when done to try to further a fight in a game.

I'm sure everyone could have handled this better. I have tons of respect for everyone here, so let's calm it down, and not hurl insults. We all know you're both doing it. Here's the matter at hand. You bring up "abuses of the system." Let's focus on the greatest abuse of the system here, and that's ZuWo not signing the bill into law in order to prevent the people from exercising their democratic right to a referendum. That's the real abuse of the system, and that's the issue here.

I love you guys, and this bickering needs to stop, and this REAL abuse needs to be at the forefront of all discussions on the topic moving forward.

I'm not hurling insults.  But what Adam did pisses me off because it's one line that I don't think should be crossed, and when people repeatedly cross it (and it's been done before), it ruins the game.  He knows what I mean, and if you want more details, you can ask him.  I'm not going to post publicly what he did.

I reported Hagrid's personal attack post after Hagrid (presumably him, since he's one of the few who'd get his little panties in such a wad) reported this topic. The description said "They reported mine, so it's only fair". Only someone like Inks would get hung on on the technicalities of the description - a mod presumably will review the post and determine whether it needs to be deleted based on the content. Political propaganda =/= personal attacks, yet once again, it's all on me.

Gotta say: there's even more defection than usual coming from the Federalists. Between ZuWo prognosticating the annals of Labor, Inks leaving vague descriptors about my 'abuse of the system', and Sbane and Hagrid devoting entire topics to how I'm a "c**nt" and a "dick" (how can you be both, by the way?), you'd almost think that they're going to get to scurry away from this one. Almost. 
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Sbane
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2013, 03:10:06 AM »

Tyrion, don't you think it is unfair to target the entire Federalist party for the acts of a few? I don't even see many people defending what Zuwo did, and yet just go to the OP and see what a disgusting ad AG made. You don't see the problem with that?
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2013, 03:10:57 AM »

Adam, your entire actions tonight have been a string of trollish posts.  It goes well beyond simply what you said in your report, because what you said shows that you were trolling from the beginning.  Trolls are what ruin the game, and right now you're doing a fine job of that.
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President Tyrion
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« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2013, 03:11:18 AM »

Regardless of your opinion on this measure, does anyone really want the female infanticide mores of India and China to enter this country?  Shouldn't we be doing more than merely condemning it?  

The issue with that line of reasoning is that the issue does not exist within Atlasia (America), even within immigrant populations. If you believe it is the case, then prove it. It is an issue that is relegated to other countries, so why do we need to pass a law for it here? I could support a law (but not this particular one because it wouldn't even be effective) targeting this problem if I was a legislator in India or China. But this is Atlasia, and we should pass laws that are relevant here.

And, to add on to sbane's point, it's incredibly difficult to prove in any context.

We can dance around the issue all we want, but there's no doubt that the two different manners of thinking are such:

1) A woman may have control over her body unless there is an extremely good reason otherwise; and

2) A woman's body may be controlled by the state unless there is an extremely good reason for freedom.

Women don't need to prove their freedom. It is a right. This law in the Mideast, however, balances heavily to the latter situation.

Oh dear lord, are we really getting into this unwinnable debate again? I would be absolutely shocked if you could find ANY pro-life Atlasians whose reason for not supporting abortion is "to control a woman's body". The abortion issue always comes down to what point each individual thinks human life begins. Every point that can be chosen has its own moral and scientific problems, and each person will evaluate these differently. To believe that this is not THE issue of the abortion debate and that it really has to do with freedoms or something is ridiculous.

Dereich, I really do respect and understand the points on both sides of the legalization of abortion debate, I really do. The issue here is not the legalization of abortion; it's about whether or not a woman has to ask permission to get one.

I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush here. I'm not saying that all, or even more than 10% of pro-lifers fall into the more "We must control women" category, but I will say that the law as it stands SOUNDS very controlling.

That, to me, is the point here. I respect your position, Emperor, I really do. But it's not just about the legalization of abortion in this case, at least not to me.
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